Are You Ready to Date Again After Divorce? How to Know for Sure

5 Key Takeaways

1. You’re not dating to escape pain. There’s a difference between dating because you’re genuinely open to connection and dating because you don’t want to sit with how you feel. Intentional dating starts with knowing why you actually want to be there.
2. You’ve processed the relationship, not just ended it. The legal ending and the emotional ending are two different things. If you’re still replaying conversations, carrying resentment, or finding ways to assign blame, there’s still processing to do. 
3. You can talk about your ex without emotional flooding. There’s a difference between being triggered by the mention of your ex and being able to reflect on the relationship clearly. When you can talk about what happened without your nervous system taking over, that’s a real shift.
4. You know your deal breakers and your triggers. A red flag is a liability worth paying attention to. A deal breaker is a genuine incompatibility — untreated addiction, rage, or visions for life that have no common ground. A trigger is usually something older, something that was there long before this relationship.
5. You feel curious about love again. Not desperate. Not trying to prove something. Just genuinely interested in the possibility of a connection again. Curiosity is a much steadier place to date from than fear of being alone.

Highlights

• 00:00 Overcoming STI Stigma in Dating
• 03:48 “Disclose Dating Liabilities Wisely”
• 06:38 Herpes: Testing Relationship Compatibility
• 12:43 “Couple Breakup Insights Discussion”
• 15:19 Exploring Subconscious Relationship Patterns
• 16:22 Evolving Relationships and Personal Growth
• 19:47 Commitment Issues in Relationships
• 24:57 “Women’s Libido Challenges Discussed”
• 28:43 “Embracing Intimacy and Well-being”
• 31:25 “Empowerment in Paris Memoir”
• 34:37 “Divorce Impact and New Beginnings”
• 35:46 Alternative Healing vs. Western Medicine
• 38:52 Zoster Viruses Nest in Nerves

Full Transcript

Dawn Wiggins [00:00:00]:

Ladies, today we have with us a guest who needs no introduction because you have already met her and fallen in love with her. The illustrious Lori Gerber.

Laurie Gerber [00:00:09]:

Welcome. Oh, hello, darling. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Dawn Wiggins [00:00:13]:

Can you even remember a time that we were not soul mates?

Laurie Gerber [00:00:16]:

I mean, I know it’s been so long.

Dawn Wiggins [00:00:19]:

You know how dating coaches tell you not to go too fast? We didn’t follow any of the rules in the friendship. This friendship. We didn’t. We just.

Laurie Gerber [00:00:25]:

We broke all the rules.

Dawn Wiggins [00:00:26]:

We did.

Laurie Gerber [00:00:27]:

We broke all the rules. It’s weird. It’s like the exception proves the rule, though. I’m not willing to give up the rules, Dom. You know, not willing to give them up. But it does. It does feel like I found the one. Yay.

Laurie Gerber [00:00:40]:

Right? Which is head, heart and hoo. Ha. Like we make the 3H not good. And it turns me on all the 3H’s. So I do think we followed that rule, which is.

Dawn Wiggins [00:00:51]:

Oh, we. That. That’s what we want everybody to hear, right? We followed that rule.

Laurie Gerber [00:00:54]:

Yeah. Yeah. And I actually am okay going fast if. If the head, heart, and hoohah are all happy. Cool, even.

Dawn Wiggins [00:01:04]:

Good to know.

Laurie Gerber [00:01:05]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:01:06]:

So when we wrapped recording our last episode where you taught us about the 3H method and we talked about dating, right. Since then, right. We practically got friend married. And so we see each other weekly because of things.

Dawn Wiggins [00:01:19]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:01:19]:

And we decided we needed to record a follow up episode to talk about deal breakers.

Dawn Wiggins [00:01:24]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:01:24]:

Like to talk about just things that we really should be discussing more, I think upfront and in the dating experience we stumbled across needing to discuss herpes as part of that. So this episode, right, we’re going to discuss deal breakers in dating.

Laurie Gerber [00:01:42]:

Yeah. I think one of the reasons I found you, spiritually speaking, is that I can’t break down every single obstacle a woman has to believing in love and feeling ready for love and enjoying dating by myself. Sometimes I need other experts and I just need other people who are savvy. So a large percentage of people I’ve coached over the years deal with STIs. And I am amazed by the level of shame we still have here in the modern era about it. And I am amazed about how many women fully take themselves off the market because of it. I mean, not just shame, not just embarrassment, not just confusion, not just shyness, not just, but truly give up on love because of it. And so when you and I started talking about some things, you know, about that topic, I.

Laurie Gerber [00:02:35]:

My little ears perked up and I thought, wow, if there’s something we can do about the fact of it. That’s a whole lot because I work on the mindset and how to disclose and all the, you know, all the emotional and technical and logistical parts. But I feel like you have. You have some insights into something. Another approach. A whole different approach.

Dawn Wiggins [00:02:54]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:02:54]:

So.

Dawn Wiggins [00:02:55]:

So the flow of this shitty chat might be a little different.

Dawn Wiggins [00:02:59]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:03:00]:

Because we’re going to tackle some of these topics together.

Dawn Wiggins [00:03:01]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:03:01]:

We’re gonna.

Laurie Gerber [00:03:02]:

We’re gonna clap. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:03:03]:

Okay.

Dawn Wiggins [00:03:04]:

So from your experience, is there such a thing as too and too early to talk about, bring up STIs or herpes or whatever in a budding relationship?

Laurie Gerber [00:03:15]:

There is too early, I think. Okay. I think it’s a very. I believe in transparency. I believe.

Dawn Wiggins [00:03:23]:

Yes, I do.

Laurie Gerber [00:03:24]:

I walk my talk. You know this. I’m constantly telling everyone what I think and feel. So I believe in transparency, but I believe in timing and. And I don’t equate transparency with tell everybody every single thing you think. Either. Or every single thing. It’s.

Laurie Gerber [00:03:43]:

It’s kind of like the important things. Not.

Dawn Wiggins [00:03:45]:

No, it’s about integrity.

Dawn Wiggins [00:03:47]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:03:47]:

Integrity.

Laurie Gerber [00:03:48]:

Yeah. Yeah. Because again, most of what we think is garbage. Honestly, the many of the thoughts we have deserve to be dismissed and tossed. But some things we think over and over again, and some things are just truths that people have the right to know. And in regards to dating, I believe everyone has about seven what I call liabilities, or things that could be problematic in a relationship that need to be disclosed, but when you disclose them has to do with trust, rapport, and the likelihood that this is your person. You don’t need to be disclosing just for the fun of it or for the morality of it. I’m teaching you.

Laurie Gerber [00:04:20]:

You have to expose it to see if you’re a match. And so the timing depends on how comfortable and how much trust you’ve built.

Dawn Wiggins [00:04:28]:

Now, this entire conversation we’re having presumes that our listeners are following the 3H method.

Laurie Gerber [00:04:37]:

Let’s not assume that.

Dawn Wiggins [00:04:38]:

Let’s not assume that. But that that’s the recommendation.

Dawn Wiggins [00:04:41]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:04:42]:

Which remind. Remind the ladies what the 3H method is.

Laurie Gerber [00:04:46]:

So the 3H method has a lot of components, but I think. Let’s summarize and say point number one. You’re listening to the needs of your head, your heart, and your hoo ha. Those are the three Hs. Your head, what’s practical, your heart, how does it feel. And. And your hoo ha. What turns you on?

Dawn Wiggins [00:04:59]:

What are you attracted to?

Laurie Gerber [00:05:00]:

So you’re vetting connections with Potential mates based on those three criteria, each getting its own equal vote, not sharing the vote. And then you understand they’re doing the same. Whether they’re conscious of it or not, they’re doing the same. So. And then I give you only three dates to figure out if you really are a match. If you’re looking for your last love of your life, if you’re looking for casual, you can do what you want.

Dawn Wiggins [00:05:23]:

But four, for instance, right. If you’re not at an eight out of 10 in all three of those zones, like, you wouldn’t put yourself through the pain of having a conversation about an STI or whatever. Like, you just.

Dawn Wiggins [00:05:32]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:05:32]:

Like it’s like first things first. Second thing. Second.

Laurie Gerber [00:05:35]:

Yeah, correct, Correct, exactly.

Dawn Wiggins [00:05:37]:

Because it is painful.

Laurie Gerber [00:05:39]:

It is, it’s scary, it’s embarrassing. And nobody, it’s nobody’s business unless you’re thinking of having sex with them. And, and so, yeah, so there is a too late. I don’t think there’s a. You know, I think there’s a too late. And the too late is after you’ve already had sex. So.

Dawn Wiggins [00:05:55]:

But candidly, I had herpes when my husband and I got together. And it was one of the scariest things I ever did in my entire life to tell him. And I know that some of that is directly correlated to. I had still so much healing work to do then.

Dawn Wiggins [00:06:12]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:06:12]:

I had done a lot, but there was still so much more. So I still had insecure attachment style, I still had self esteem work to do. And so telling him did feel like I was collapsing into shame.

Dawn Wiggins [00:06:22]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:06:23]:

And it was physiologically so deeply distressing.

Laurie Gerber [00:06:27]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:06:27]:

And that was real.

Laurie Gerber [00:06:29]:

How did he take it?

Dawn Wiggins [00:06:30]:

He didn’t care.

Laurie Gerber [00:06:32]:

I mean, this is what I love about the herpes conversation. You really find out if they like you.

Dawn Wiggins [00:06:36]:

He was like, great, can we go again?

Laurie Gerber [00:06:38]:

Like, yeah, like 50 you find out they have it too. And then the other 50, you find out if they really like you or not, which is why it’s good to do it by day two or three. Because if they think you’re hot and they want to have sex with you and they feel comfortable with you and your dreams intertwine well and your lives would work out and they like you, they feel enchanted by you, Herpes isn’t going to be what messes it up unless they have OCD or some.

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:07]:

Sure, that’s a really good point around that particular thing.

Laurie Gerber [00:07:09]:

In which case it could mess it up with a person. But then that’s not your person.

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:14]:

Right.

Laurie Gerber [00:07:14]:

And that’s okay.

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:15]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:16]:

Isn’t there. There’s a quote which you’re more likely to know than I am, but about, like, what’s meant for you cannot be kept from you.

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:22]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:22]:

That sort of idea.

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:23]:

That.

Laurie Gerber [00:07:24]:

My version of that is a quote from Lauren Handel Zander, my mentor and teacher of the Handel method. You can’t fuck it up with the One and for the children. You can’t mess it up with the One. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:36]:

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber [00:07:37]:

You can’t mess it up with the One. So if. If your disclosure messes it up, they weren’t your one.

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:41]:

They weren’t your one.

Laurie Gerber [00:07:41]:

And you really. You really want to get rid of them sooner than later before you get attached, invest. Before you take it personally because it’s not personal. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:50]:

Okay.

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:53]:

What is the difference between a red flag, a deal breaker, and a trigger when you’re dating post divorce?

Dawn Wiggins [00:08:03]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:08:03]:

And this is like such a good question, and we may have to sit with it for a bit.

Dawn Wiggins [00:08:07]:

Right.

Laurie Gerber [00:08:07]:

Like, it’s. It’s complicated. Three things. So good.

Dawn Wiggins [00:08:10]:

And I think that these are the kinds of conversations we need to be having with women because we teach them about red flags. We teach them about deal breakers, we teach them about triggers. But how do you sort them out when you’re in it and you’re feeling feelings and you’re. Whatever, disassociating or.

Laurie Gerber [00:08:25]:

I don’t know. Right, like disassociated. Yes, exactly. Feel your feet on the ground, first of all. Okay. So the. I think it’s easiest to start with just saying the difference between red flags and deal breakers. I want you to look for red flags.

Laurie Gerber [00:08:39]:

I think red flags are another way of saying liabilities. And I put liabilities in quotes, which means a habit, a health condition, a living situation, a relationship that’s not yet resolved, a personality trait. It’s like the things. And everybody has them. I estimate about 7 that come up in a relationship that are like, is that going to work? And I think you want to look for those. Okay. And if it’s your person, you don’t mind those. Or you can work with them.

Dawn Wiggins [00:09:10]:

You can work with them.

Laurie Gerber [00:09:10]:

Want to work with them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you’re not looking for someone who doesn’t have any red.

Dawn Wiggins [00:09:15]:

I would like everyone to know that my husband and I have the same fight over and over and over and over and over again. And while it gets mo. Maybe the tiniest bit better each time, we haven’t. It’s like, okay, I know. I just know this is the. We’re gonna have this fight next Month. And the month after that.

Laurie Gerber [00:09:38]:

It’s on a monthly cycle. That’s interesting.

Dawn Wiggins [00:09:41]:

It often correlates to when I’ve been taking a new homeopathic remedy and I no longer feel like suppressing my frustration about the thing. And then I blurt it out, and then we have the conversation, then we move on.

Dawn Wiggins [00:09:51]:

Great.

Laurie Gerber [00:09:52]:

So, yeah. So you’re. So red flags are nothing to be afraid of. They’re something to pay attention to and sort out. But then a red flag can quickly turn into a deal breaker if it really is. And then. And that’s. That can be a thing.

Laurie Gerber [00:10:06]:

Like that thing is too triggering for you. Like an alcoholic that’s not in recovery is a deal breaker. Okay.

Dawn Wiggins [00:10:13]:

But can we talk about the difference? Because I tend to think there are not a lot of deal breakers, like.

Laurie Gerber [00:10:20]:

Agreed.

Dawn Wiggins [00:10:21]:

Okay. So I tend to think there’s not a lot of deal breakers. And a deal breaker is actually some, for me, is something in the realm of this person isn’t willing to work on it or something.

Dawn Wiggins [00:10:32]:

Right, right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:10:32]:

So an active alcoholic isn’t willing to work on really anything other than.

Dawn Wiggins [00:10:36]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:10:36]:

Because everything comes second to their addiction.

Dawn Wiggins [00:10:38]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:10:39]:

So.

Laurie Gerber [00:10:40]:

And that goes for any addiction that someone’s not in recovery. Yeah. And you probably think, oh, well, just give me the. Give me the deal breaker and I’ll fix it with a remedy.

Dawn Wiggins [00:10:52]:

Addiction is one of the hardest things to write because it does take such an enormous amount of internal motivation. It really does. Remedies or no remedies.

Dawn Wiggins [00:11:00]:

Right.

Laurie Gerber [00:11:00]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:11:00]:

It takes an enormous amount of internal motivation and commitment.

Laurie Gerber [00:11:04]:

I’m just suggesting that part of why you think there are so few deal breakers is because you.

Dawn Wiggins [00:11:09]:

I can fix everything with a remedy.

Laurie Gerber [00:11:11]:

Because you can fix everything, which is this is why I want to partner with you. Because I want there to be so few deal breakers. And I. And I find over and over again that things that people think are deal breakers are not deal breakers. They’re liabilities you have to work with. I mean.

Dawn Wiggins [00:11:24]:

Or triggers. The third thing.

Laurie Gerber [00:11:27]:

Or triggers. Exactly. So I wanted to live in New York City. That would have been a deal breaker for someone who hates New York City. But it just wasn’t for my husband. So some. So a deal breaker is totally subjective and can change and not be a deal breaker. But the kinds of deal breakers I sort of accept when my client.

Laurie Gerber [00:11:46]:

And I would love to hear if you would agree with this. But if someone says it’s a deal, like an addiction, an untreated addiction is a deal breaker, or rage is a deal breaker.

Dawn Wiggins [00:11:55]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:11:55]:

Violence.

Laurie Gerber [00:11:56]:

Violence is a deal breaker. Or doesn’t want to be monogamous or doesn’t want to be poly. You know, whatever your. Your thing is. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:12:03]:

Misalignment of.

Laurie Gerber [00:12:04]:

Doesn’t want to live where I want to live. Smoking is often a deal breaker for people like cigarettes, but that’s addiction or drug use.

Dawn Wiggins [00:12:12]:

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber [00:12:13]:

So I do. Where your dreams are taking you are too separate and mutually exclusive. I think that’s a fair deal breaker. I also think potentially differences in libido could be a deal breaker. Although I of course, believe you can work on that.

Dawn Wiggins [00:12:29]:

Did you hear my breath?

Laurie Gerber [00:12:31]:

I did. I know you don’t agree with this, but.

Dawn Wiggins [00:12:33]:

No, it’s not that I don’t agree with it. It’s. I think it’s so hard. I have a lot to say about it. That’s what it is. It’s not that I don’t agree, but I have a lot to say.

Laurie Gerber [00:12:43]:

Can I give you a real life example? And, you know, because again, I keep wanting to go, like, maybe she’s got a cure for them. Like, I. I break couples up. Right. Like, I. I’m in the midst of breaking. I’m in the midst of breaking three different couples up. So I want to really hear what you have to say about these incompatibilities and deal breakers.

Laurie Gerber [00:13:00]:

Okay. So one couple. The deal breaker is. Oh, I think if you can’t forgive them for cheating, I think that’s a deal breaker. I think that’s a.

Dawn Wiggins [00:13:08]:

In a past relationship.

Laurie Gerber [00:13:10]:

No, in. In the current relationship.

Dawn Wiggins [00:13:11]:

In the current relationship.

Laurie Gerber [00:13:12]:

So I’m talking about relationships of people who are dating for a while now. So one incompatibility is this one wants to be this kind of poly, and this one doesn’t want to be that. This one wants to be a different kind of poly. So she needs more reassurance. He wants more freedom. To me, I’m like, go. Like, don’t try to. Don’t try to change yourselves.

Laurie Gerber [00:13:34]:

If you want a primary person and you only want to bring in a third with the both of you, and you want to be able to flirt with whoever, whenever, and get phone numbers. That’s not coming. That’s not coming.

Dawn Wiggins [00:13:44]:

That’s not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I don’t think that’s.

Laurie Gerber [00:13:46]:

I.

Dawn Wiggins [00:13:47]:

That’s a deal breaker right now. I think the underpinnings of. I think those are complex cases. Remedies can’t.

Dawn Wiggins [00:13:56]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:13:56]:

Like emdr, ifs. Remedies can improve all those things. And I have my grad school wife, she read all the Homework and then we discuss it in the car. And then I’d know the answers to the exams. Anyways, she’s poly and she’s been.

Dawn Wiggins [00:14:12]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:14:12]:

We’ve been working on some things. Homeopathic and she’s. She’s a therapist and she’s a massage therapist. So she knows all the things.

Dawn Wiggins [00:14:18]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:14:18]:

So we’ve, we. She has worked to improve, to have a more secure attachment style and further refine and define how she wants to have her love life. Look. Yes, yes.

Laurie Gerber [00:14:29]:

But. All right, can I give you the second one? Yep. So this couple broke up because he is very type A. He likes to design his life. He likes coaching. He likes. He just is like a mover and a shaker and she’s kind of not joining him there.

Dawn Wiggins [00:14:48]:

Right.

Laurie Gerber [00:14:49]:

And she’s. She’s sort of more aimless. Doesn’t quite follow up on things like didn’t write a birthday car. You know, just like not beautiful. Sex is great. Beautiful love, very strong love. But in the head area, they’re just not. They’re nowhere like on the same wavelength or the same plane.

Dawn Wiggins [00:15:10]:

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber [00:15:11]:

And he tried for a long time to bring.

Dawn Wiggins [00:15:14]:

Yeah, probably he needs to downshift a notch and she probably needs to upshift a notch.

Dawn Wiggins [00:15:18]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:15:19]:

Super interesting. So I immediately go to where in your childhood did these patterns like become established and how did you attract this person in the first place? Because I really believe from a vibrational place that we call like calls to like. So in what way are those two people mirrors for each other? In what ways are they both using their particular approaches to avoid feeling something or addressing something or tackling something? Like I’m always looking for what is the subconscious pattern here? Because that relationship, you can end a relationship. And this is why I think there aren’t that many deal breakers. And you are going to attract the same pattern in a different container. And you. And it’s just so often the case.

Laurie Gerber [00:16:01]:

So. So do you fight for a relationship no matter what?

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:05]:

No, because. But, but I think that life is gonna. Life no matter what. And I think that to really be in a monogamous relationship for an extended period of time, you have to be prepared for whatever life is gonna throw at you. And that’s going to mean many iterations of a self of beliefs.

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:21]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:22]:

Our beliefs should be evolving over time. Our interests should be evolving over time. Our sense of self and our relationship to the world should be evolving over time. And so how can we be in a relationship and expect that person to stay the same or to know how they’re going to react to when this person dies or that person breaks. You know, like, I think the. Some of the most important things we can have are transparency, a willingness to work on it together, humility, vulnerability, you know what I mean? It’s more like character traits that I think are more important because I think very few things are deal breakers unless we have unhealed wounds, you know, because then it’s really triggers very often and we can’t get out of our own way.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:04]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:04]:

And so, and then I think that I am pro marriage and the reason I’m pro marriage and it’s so interesting because we’re on a divorce podcast, but I started as a marriage therapist and then got divorced. So the reason I’m pro marriage is because I know that most people, if they just did that work, a lot of things would smooth out.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:25]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:25]:

And they wouldn’t repeat the patterns. And so I think that it’s short sighted, excited to think that divorce is a solution. I think divorce actually introduces an additional problem and if you haven’t solved like the actual problems, then it’s. You’re not really sure whether or not you’re eligible for divorce.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:43]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:43]:

So I just think a lot of people haven’t done enough footwork to determine their divorce eligibility.

Laurie Gerber [00:17:47]:

Right, right. Yeah. So I’m gonna say to summarize, the deal breakers you and I agree on are transparency, willingness to work on stuff.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:57]:

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber [00:17:57]:

Self reflection, willing to do your own inner work. And I would, I would add to that, you know, dreams that don’t mutually exclude each other.

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:07]:

Yeah. I see people have deal breakers like around time spent, meaning. And I have seen some people navigate this beautifully, but like, let’s say somebody who’s already semi retired and somebody else is still working, that kind of thing.

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:21]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:21]:

And their work is their purpose and their passion or whatever. And it’s like, no, I’m not going to give you, you know, an unending amount of time, but. Or like kids, right. Like young kids that still require a lot of, you know, just life.

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:34]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:34]:

Attending to them. And maybe this other person wants to travel so much, you know what I mean? Like there are certain things, a stage of life issues maybe that can be deal breakers.

Laurie Gerber [00:18:42]:

Yeah, yeah. Just real incompatibility around the practicalities, which is a little bit what I’m saying in the second example, which is like he wants to be traveling the world and doing things that she literally.

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:54]:

Content.

Laurie Gerber [00:18:54]:

Content, you know, and content not to. So. And doesn’t really want him doing it. So it’s, it’s it really is mutually exclusive.

Dawn Wiggins [00:19:01]:

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber [00:19:01]:

Dreams, visions, aptitudes. Okay, I’m not going to give you the third example. Just in the interest of time and talking about triggers. Triggers. Now I’m dealing in early dating and usually because my specialty is when you’re on the bench, are you gonna date? You’re in the early dating and you’re looking for who you might want to date. And then you’re in early dating figuring out if they’re the ones. So usually we’re not triggering each other yet at that stage.

Dawn Wiggins [00:19:24]:

Right.

Laurie Gerber [00:19:25]:

That’s happening more in like.

Dawn Wiggins [00:19:27]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:19:27]:

Which is where we. Yeah. Where we fall in a pothole because we.

Laurie Gerber [00:19:31]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:19:31]:

We are falling in love with a false sense of real life.

Laurie Gerber [00:19:36]:

Exactly. So that’s probably when triggers show up and when you either deepen into, we’re going to figure this out together or you go, I don’t want to deal with that.

Dawn Wiggins [00:19:47]:

Right.

Laurie Gerber [00:19:47]:

Either I’m not ready to deal with mine or I’m not really ready to deal with yours. And then I’m out. And those are triggers. I’ve seen a lot of couples go through that when it comes time for commitment. In fact, I would say this couple, the first couple I mentioned, like, when it came time for really commitment, like are we going to get married or not? It was like, no, this is not going to. We’re not. We tried, but we’re not going to come closer together.

Dawn Wiggins [00:20:10]:

And I find that ambivalence is one of the most toxic things in a relationship.

Dawn Wiggins [00:20:14]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:20:14]:

There is nothing that will tank someone’s self esteem or their self concept than their partner being ambivalent, like unsure about being with them.

Laurie Gerber [00:20:24]:

That’s triggering. I would, I would call that a trigger. I would call that a trigger. Yeah. And I mean, it’s so funny because when you say trigger, I’m like, I don’t even know what you mean because I can’t relate to it personally other than, oh, like he wants to go.

Dawn Wiggins [00:20:38]:

Like he wants to go hang out with his friends and she panics. Like he criticizes something I don’t. You know what I mean? Like, it’s like wounds that typically go back to our childhood or our parents.

Laurie Gerber [00:20:50]:

You know, I was gonna say my point. I do understand what triggers me, but I am having trouble placing it in an early dating.

Dawn Wiggins [00:20:57]:

Dating for me.

Laurie Gerber [00:20:58]:

My triggers are so ancient and they’re just the same as they’ve always been, except now I do them with my husband.

Dawn Wiggins [00:21:03]:

Yes.

Laurie Gerber [00:21:05]:

Like if I have to patient, if I have to patiently wait for the answer to Something, you know, that’s triggering to me.

Dawn Wiggins [00:21:11]:

Yes.

Laurie Gerber [00:21:12]:

As it has always been my whole life with everyone. If I feel insecure about money, that is triggering to me. As it has been my whole life, regardless of him. So he can push my buttons, but my buttons were there. Yeah. Regardless of him. So I don’t. I feel like that’s a personal issue, not a dating issue per se, but obviously it comes up dating.

Dawn Wiggins [00:21:31]:

I think so many women settle for not an 8 out of 10 in their head, heart and hoo ha.

Dawn Wiggins [00:21:37]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:21:37]:

And then it’s like that right there clears up the bulk of this conversation we’re having, you know, because if somebody’s not being honest or transparent or engaged, like, there’s not going to be an 8 out of 10 scoring, and then it’s. And then that’s it.

Laurie Gerber [00:21:55]:

Well, the real trick is converting a woman’s fear that being honest and transparent will drive the man away. Because not only do we not think it’s sexy and awesome, we actually think it’s harmful and bad. And so I’m forever trying to convince a woman that it’s the sexiest thing, that if you can convince a man you actually want to know the truth and tell the truth, if he really believes you, there will be this unbelievable ease in the.

Dawn Wiggins [00:22:21]:

If he wants the truth. That’s right. So let’s talk about that for a moment. I think there’s a lot of things that us women have twisted.

Dawn Wiggins [00:22:26]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:22:26]:

Like, for instance, do we wear makeup and style our hair in particular ways and dress in certain clothes for men or for ourselves?

Dawn Wiggins [00:22:34]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:22:34]:

Like I, my husband prefers me in minimal makeup, looking natural. And you know how many men that I work with, one on one and in couples counseling feel the same way.

Laurie Gerber [00:22:49]:

I do it for women.

Dawn Wiggins [00:22:50]:

You do it for women. Yeah.

Laurie Gerber [00:22:52]:

There’s a third option. What is it for women?

Dawn Wiggins [00:22:56]:

For women?

Laurie Gerber [00:22:56]:

You do it for men or for yourself?

Dawn Wiggins [00:22:58]:

For women.

Dawn Wiggins [00:22:59]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:22:59]:

And so it’s like, are we as women, really clear about what men want?

Laurie Gerber [00:23:05]:

I don’t think so. That feels like a whole other episode. That’s a whole nother episode. I think most men’s deal breakers are, you’re not over your ex sex. You don’t have enough attend. You don’t have enough attention for me. You don’t need me, value me, respect me, admire me, or have room for me. Too much drama.

Laurie Gerber [00:23:26]:

Or you’re pressuring me like you don’t care how I think and feel.

Dawn Wiggins [00:23:30]:

And then. And then I’m gonna throw in there not enough sex, because that’s really Which.

Laurie Gerber [00:23:37]:

I was just talking about heart, but that’s the one for me.

Dawn Wiggins [00:23:40]:

Okay, so. So you don’t think that herpes or any STI is a deal breaker for most men. Good point.

Laurie Gerber [00:23:51]:

I think it’s probably 50.

Dawn Wiggins [00:23:56]:

50. Okay.

Laurie Gerber [00:23:58]:

I think every man who has herpes and knows they do, it’s. It’s an advantage, an asset, not a liability.

Dawn Wiggins [00:24:04]:

Well, and 25% of the 50 don’t know they have it, and they have it, so. 75%.

Laurie Gerber [00:24:12]:

Exactly. So for men who don’t know they have it, I think it’s 50. 50. Okay. And for men who know they don’t have it, I think it’s 50. 50. So you’re dealing with. I.

Laurie Gerber [00:24:23]:

I’m really bad at the calculus of this, But I think 75% of men are fine if everything else is great. If everything else is not great, they might use that as the reason that.

Dawn Wiggins [00:24:33]:

That’s it.

Dawn Wiggins [00:24:34]:

Right.

Laurie Gerber [00:24:34]:

Use that just like you would like. I. We are just, like, constantly. Right? We go, oh, I couldn’t do that because I have this other thing I have to do. And it’s not true. It’s like, you didn’t do it because you don’t want to do it. Right. We say, I can’t do it because.

Dawn Wiggins [00:24:51]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:24:52]:

Like flame shift.

Laurie Gerber [00:24:52]:

Yeah, it’s me, not you. You know, I’m not. I’m not. I’m not ready, Whatever. I’m not.

Dawn Wiggins [00:24:57]:

Can we circle, circle back to the libido thing again? Because this is something that comes up a lot in my practice, and it’s becoming a real pet peeve. So in my experience, women of a certain age have taken a profound hit to their libido for a whole host of reasons. Metabolic dysfunction, hormonal dysfunction. You know what I mean? Like adrenal fatigue. Like so many layers of things that, quite frankly, the men in the world have contributed to. Do you know how many women I talk to who want to make out but not have to be committed to have sex? And men can’t handle that, and then they get huffy and.

Dawn Wiggins [00:25:37]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:25:37]:

So I think for men, this is a call to the men. I’m just sending out a vibrational note to the world of men. Men, please do your work to be able to be more flexible around sex. Love, making out, libido and all of the things so that you can learn to love a woman for more than just how it feels when your penis is wet.

Laurie Gerber [00:26:00]:

Fair are different, but I actually think it’s fair for a man to want to have regular sex and for it to be a deal breaker for him if she doesn’t want to.

Dawn Wiggins [00:26:09]:

I.

Dawn Wiggins [00:26:12]:

Have concerns because I think that more women than not are really struggling on a metabol metabolic level. And I think you’re going to start to reduce the dating pool to a very small group of women then.

Laurie Gerber [00:26:27]:

But don’t you think that’s a call to action, to self care? Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:26:31]:

Oh, yes. Well, again, right. It’s like, is she at work on it?

Dawn Wiggins [00:26:37]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:26:37]:

So is it a deal breaker that the. That she has this challenge, or is it a deal breaker that she has this challenge and she’s not addressing it at all?

Laurie Gerber [00:26:46]:

Bingo. Yeah, bingo. I mean, I shut down my sex life with my husband. Shut it down completely for a long time. And he just tolerated it. I mean, he was lonely. He was.

Dawn Wiggins [00:26:58]:

Nice guy syndrome.

Laurie Gerber [00:26:59]:

Yeah. So nice. And he just. And I just. And it was literally one of the first things my life coach said to me addressed. Are you trying to get divorced? And I was like, no, actually I’m not. And she’s like, well, the only thing that differentiates a friendship from what you have with your husband is the sexual. So if you’re taking that off the table, what are you doing? And it was such a light bulb moment for me.

Laurie Gerber [00:27:23]:

I was like, oh, my God, why? What is wrong with me? Like, what? And I don’t mean that in a mean way. I was like, why? First of all, why do I.

Dawn Wiggins [00:27:30]:

Why didn’t it occur to me?

Laurie Gerber [00:27:31]:

Why didn’t it occur to me? And the answer is, because my parents weren’t having sex, so I thought that was normal. But when I actually broke it down, it isn’t good for me either. It’s good for me to not want to have sex with my.

Dawn Wiggins [00:27:44]:

No, it means something’s off. Yes, it means something.

Laurie Gerber [00:27:47]:

Stuffing my face with potato chips and donuts and having a baby suck on my tit till they’re four years old. Like, that’s not good for me. I loved breastfeeding. So for. Let me just say I loved it. I would never. I would never change that. But the point is, I was booked, and I was booked with food, and I was booked with my kids.

Laurie Gerber [00:28:08]:

And I forsake this man I was not trying to get rid of in the. In the area where he expresses love and receives love. And that’s valid.

Dawn Wiggins [00:28:17]:

Yeah, Agreed. Agreed.

Laurie Gerber [00:28:19]:

You know, and I coach a lot of nice men who just, you know, obviously if you say no, they’re not gonna make you. That’s the way they learn, right? Like, that’s. That’s what they Learn. But then what do they do with the fact that they really. That’s their ex. That’s how they express love. That’s how they feel close. That’s how they want to show you how much they love you.

Laurie Gerber [00:28:41]:

They want to give you pleasure.

Dawn Wiggins [00:28:42]:

They want you happy.

Laurie Gerber [00:28:43]:

They want to see you relaxed. All of these benefits. And as soon as I was like, oh, right, if I gave up the food, I might even want the physical touch. I might even want the intimacy. And I’d be better off two ways, three ways, right? I feel better in my body and my health. I reconnect with my husband, and I’d have the joy of sex. And then once I’m like, oh, I’m gonna have sex on principle, then I figure out how to make it good. Because if I’m gonna do it anyway, I might as well make it.

Dawn Wiggins [00:29:12]:

It’s like, might as well make it amazing.

Laurie Gerber [00:29:14]:

Might as well find the workout you like. Yeah. So I found the sex I like. And then it’s like. And I still don’t care. I still don’t want to. But the benefits.

Dawn Wiggins [00:29:25]:

Can we keep tabs on that in your remedy? I was going to say.

Laurie Gerber [00:29:29]:

Permission to speak freely?

Dawn Wiggins [00:29:30]:

Like, can you?

Laurie Gerber [00:29:31]:

If you’re going to make me horny in addition to everything else.

Dawn Wiggins [00:29:34]:

Yes. That’s the plan, friend. That is the plan. Please keep me posted.

Laurie Gerber [00:29:39]:

So annoying. Okay. It’s fine.

Dawn Wiggins [00:29:41]:

Right?

Laurie Gerber [00:29:41]:

It’s fine. You’ll have to work on my time management first. But. But my point is that I just. I think it’s such an asset to almost every relationship. And if it forces you to deal with your childhood trauma, if that’s it. And it forces you to deal with your body shame, and it forces you to deal with your food choices or your alcohol television choices.

Dawn Wiggins [00:30:03]:

Preach. Yes. Good. Good. Okay, can we segue into. Since men and women are not clear about what are deal breakers and what each other actually wants, what are some other things that women are suppressing in their dating life that men actually would think is hot?

Dawn Wiggins [00:30:21]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:30:22]:

So, like, what are desires that women have that they’re not being honest about that men really are looking for? And we’re, like, hiding it. We’re not doing it. Tell me you’re giggling. I must know.

Laurie Gerber [00:30:33]:

I’m giggling because I’m just thinking about making out with other women.

Dawn Wiggins [00:30:37]:

So true.

Laurie Gerber [00:30:38]:

I mean, I did it in college. Yeah, most men wouldn’t mind just saying if that happens to fit your foot. I mean, men love our bodies. That’s what I’m always constantly saying.

Dawn Wiggins [00:30:52]:

And then we don’t love our bodies and then we’re not loving our bodies together. It like becomes a.

Laurie Gerber [00:30:57]:

And they actually love us loving our bodies.

Dawn Wiggins [00:30:59]:

Yes.

Laurie Gerber [00:31:00]:

They don’t just love our bodies, they love us loving our bodies.

Dawn Wiggins [00:31:03]:

Yes. And most men don’t care about a particular body type or like, some do. Some are really.

Laurie Gerber [00:31:09]:

And if they do, they need a remedy.

Dawn Wiggins [00:31:12]:

That’s true. 100%.

Dawn Wiggins [00:31:14]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:31:14]:

They have some issues they need to work on.

Dawn Wiggins [00:31:15]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:31:16]:

But most men just. Where did we, you and I both read the same article recently. Was it about the woman who was spending the month in Paris?

Laurie Gerber [00:31:24]:

Yes.

Dawn Wiggins [00:31:25]:

And gosh, this was great. Maybe we could link the article in the show notes because I experienced a state change when I read this article. It was like she, you know, was like maybe perimenopausal or post menopausal. And she was in Paris and she was single and, you know, she had a one night stand with a guy. But like, she remembered. What she forgot is that men just love it when we’re naked.

Laurie Gerber [00:31:48]:

That’s it. Yeah. Yeah. And we are naked and happy to be.

Dawn Wiggins [00:31:52]:

Right? Yeah. And we’re so vibe.

Laurie Gerber [00:31:54]:

It’s the vibe. It’s the vibe. And I, I just. Since you’ve been sharing with me about your husband, I will just say my husband sometimes tells me, he’s like, here’s what I picture you doing all day while you’re up in your office working. I just picture you laying in your bed playing with yourself. That’s what you’re doing, right? That’s what I assume you’re doing all day.

Dawn Wiggins [00:32:16]:

Yes. Yes, honey.

Laurie Gerber [00:32:17]:

Nailed it yourself. Nailed it. I was like, okay, you can go ahead and thank that. But just like, it just gives him all kinds of joy to just think about me pleasuring myself to imagine that.

Dawn Wiggins [00:32:29]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:32:32]:

So that’s it.

Dawn Wiggins [00:32:32]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:32:33]:

Like, part of the dating conversation should definitely be about masturbation and.

Laurie Gerber [00:32:39]:

Yeah. I mean, just readiness, right? Yeah. Part of, part of readiness is, is loving yourself and loving your body and loving pleasure. I mean, do people date without that, without that hurdle accomplished and even successfully? Yes. But in an ideal world, you know the treasure you are and you’re just so excited to share it. And then you know your partner because your partner’s like, right. Treasure.

Dawn Wiggins [00:33:03]:

Treasure.

Laurie Gerber [00:33:04]:

I agree, I agree, I agree.

Dawn Wiggins [00:33:06]:

Herpes or no herpes?

Laurie Gerber [00:33:08]:

Herpes. Are no herpes. Well worth it. Not a problem. No big deal. Yeah. So I think that’s one of the things the question was, what do women, what are women keeping under wraps that men actually that aren’t deal breakers, but we think. Think they’re deal breakers.

Laurie Gerber [00:33:23]:

I mean, I actually think that women think that their success means something to a man and it mostly threatening in some way. Right. One way or another.

Dawn Wiggins [00:33:31]:

Right.

Laurie Gerber [00:33:31]:

It’s not, it’s not the success that means something good or bad to a man. It’s. No, it’s usually confidence without controlling them.

Dawn Wiggins [00:33:39]:

That. It’s the control that’s the problem.

Dawn Wiggins [00:33:40]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:33:41]:

It’s not the success, it’s the controlling nature.

Laurie Gerber [00:33:43]:

That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. Finances is another one that I think people think is a deal breaker one way or the other, but it tends to not be if everything else is good.

Dawn Wiggins [00:33:52]:

Because it’s not usually about money.

Laurie Gerber [00:33:55]:

The.

Dawn Wiggins [00:33:55]:

You may, you know, you may have issues about money, but it’s always deeper than that.

Dawn Wiggins [00:33:59]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:33:59]:

Representing some sort of deeper security oriented issue.

Laurie Gerber [00:34:05]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:34:05]:

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber [00:34:05]:

Although I’m not telling women on their second marriages that they need to combine their finances.

Dawn Wiggins [00:34:10]:

Sure. I get.

Laurie Gerber [00:34:11]:

Maybe I’ll send them to you for a remedy thing. Yeah, I’m sure there’s a remedy for not wanting to combine your finances.

Dawn Wiggins [00:34:19]:

Well, I think that, I think that I would tend towards, like, if, if this relationship really meets the 3H rule. Like, I would lean towards considering it.

Laurie Gerber [00:34:30]:

Right. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:34:32]:

But I get it, right?

Laurie Gerber [00:34:33]:

In an ideal world, right? In an ideal world, right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:34:35]:

And an economy really is a thing.

Dawn Wiggins [00:34:37]:

Right?

Dawn Wiggins [00:34:37]:

Like, you really do split your economy in half when you get divorced. And that’s devastating. But my husband and I, now, my second husband, right. We have always sort of understood that we grow things, we grow things better together. Like, so that really works for us. But I, I get it, right. We didn’t come to this marriage with millions. You recently referred someone to me to address this herpes piece.

Dawn Wiggins [00:35:05]:

And so let’s unpack that.

Laurie Gerber [00:35:08]:

Yeah. I mean, the truth is, if you can make it so someone doesn’t have to feel ashamed of, slash, disclose. Slash have herpes. I feel like there’s just going to be no end to humans who want to be seen by you.

Dawn Wiggins [00:35:24]:

Sign up to, to work with me.

Laurie Gerber [00:35:25]:

So, so please explain. Please explain so that when I share this podcast, people can hear what the heck we’re talking about.

Dawn Wiggins [00:35:32]:

Yeah. Okay. So if I get too far in the weeds, pull me back, pull me back, throw.

Laurie Gerber [00:35:39]:

Everyone, get out. Go get out your notepad. She’s about to get scientific. Okay, okay.

Dawn Wiggins [00:35:46]:

So a lot of what I’m going to say, if you Google it, Google is going to literally laugh at you. Like, it’s going to, it’s going to pop up with a Memoji and it’s going to start to giggle, right? So you’d have to scroll like to the fourth page of Google to validate or you’d have to ask ChatGPT or someone who is well versed in alternative medicines. So the body was designed to heal itself, and when it’s not healing itself and a symptom has become chronic, it means that there’s some block, something is in the way and has inhibited the body’s capacity to do what it was designed to do. Now, this happens to be a very convenient thing in the way that we practice medicine here in the west, because anytime we have an ailment or an illness, they have a medication for that. And then when we have a side effect from that medication, they have a medication for that and so on and so forth, right? But in a lot of other parts of the world, you know, there are a lot wiser forms of approaching illness and wellness in India, in France, you know, homeopathy is a huge chunk of the healthcare system in the east, right. Herbs and acupuncture and, you know, family are priorities for maintaining wellness. And, you know, anyways, I could go on and on about that, but. So when we contract an illness like herpes is a virus and we’ve been told that there is no clearing that virus from the body, in my experience and in the research, you will learn that there is absolutely a way to discharge a lot of subclinical viral load we are all walking around with.

Dawn Wiggins [00:37:26]:

It is part of why we are all fatigued all the time, because our bodies are not spinning out that viral load. And that is so much of what homeopathy does is it spins out subclinical viral load. Now, when we do a herpes test, we do a has it, doesn’t have it test in that does the body recognize the shape of this virus and, and remember that so that it can mount a defense the next time it gets exposed to it.

Dawn Wiggins [00:37:50]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:37:51]:

However, if you were doing a PCR test to test viral load from herpes after working with me, you would find that that PCR test drops down to zero, that you have immunity, but zero viral load, therefore not transmissible. Now, all of this is discussed in a book that I love to recommend to people, which was written by a double PhD astrophysicist. The book is called the Impossible Cure. Now, I think it’s advantageous to maintain your body’s immune awareness that it’s had an illness, especially if you’re dating, because if you get exposed to it again because so Far freaking many people have herpes and various STI.

Dawn Wiggins [00:38:32]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:38:32]:

Because P.S. this whole conversation applies to HPV also. So if you know that you have HPV and you are concerned about cervical cancer, yes, we can clear HPV from your body as well. So I think there’s advantages to help to allowing your body to remember that you’ve had herpes and to know how to confront it.

Dawn Wiggins [00:38:51]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:38:52]:

But if you really want to get it out of your body. Where zoster viruses hang out in the body is in the nerves, because nerves are hollow and they are great storage places for this genetic material. And the body is not keen to kill a nerve just to get to eradicate a virus, because that’s painful and dangerous and whatever.

Dawn Wiggins [00:39:13]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:39:14]:

But there is so much research and evidence and documented cases of people who have used ozone therapy to eradicate that genetic material from their nerves so that they can test absolutely negative to a herpes test. Now, you will not easily find all this data.

Dawn Wiggins [00:39:31]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:39:32]:

It is not mainstream. To me, that makes me want to do it more because typically when something isn’t mainstream, it means it’s right and the information about it has been suppressed. Thoughts, feelings, feedbacks, reactions.

Laurie Gerber [00:39:45]:

So exciting.

Dawn Wiggins [00:39:47]:

Did I get two in the weeds?

Laurie Gerber [00:39:48]:

It just makes me feel like anything’s possible, really. It is. I love it. I love it. And, and. And I think it’s a good note to end on in the sense that whatever you think your deal breakers may be, people who are watching, you’re probably wrong.

Dawn Wiggins [00:40:05]:

Yes. Right.

Laurie Gerber [00:40:06]:

For the. Right. For the right person, you can heal that deal breaker. Or you, they will love you for it.

Dawn Wiggins [00:40:11]:

That’s right. One or the other is possible. One or the other is possible.

Laurie Gerber [00:40:14]:

Don’t give up. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:40:17]:

All right, my darling dear, thank you for being with us today and to all of our lovely listeners. Peace.