When Menopause Meets Divorce: Hot Flashes, Heartbreak, and Rebuilding Your Identity

5 Key Takeaways

1. Menopause often shines a light on existing relationship problems. Hormonal changes may reduce the emotional buffers that once helped women tolerate unhealthy patterns, leading many to reevaluate their relationships.
2. Divorce during menopause can feel emotionally and physically overwhelming. Many women experience anxiety, loneliness, grief, identity loss, and uncertainty while simultaneously navigating significant hormonal changes.
3. Menopause can become a powerful season of self-rediscovery. Many women find themselves asking important questions about their needs, values, purpose, and the life they want moving forward.
4. Dating after divorce during menopause brings unique challenges.. Changes in confidence, body image, libido, and expectations can create new concerns, but they also provide opportunities for deeper self-awareness and healthier relationships.
5. Healing starts with investing in yourself. Whether through personal growth, therapy, supportive friendships, wellness practices, or coaching, building a stronger relationship with yourself creates the foundation for a fulfilling next chapter.

Highlights

• 00:00 Midlife Confessions: Menopause & Divorce
• 04:34 “Hookup Struggles and Loneliness”
• 08:29 “Finding Strength After Betrayal”
• 11:12 Menopause, Marriage, and Miscommunication
• 15:42 “Betrayal and Self-Rediscovery”
• 19:12 Perimenopause, Anxiety, and Loneliness
• >23:02 “Ending a Loveless Marriage”
• 24:17 Menopause’s Impact on Relationships
• 28:47 “Self-Care Before Dating”
• 33:46 “Resentment and Suppressed Emotions”
• 35:27 Midlife Fun with Friends

Full Transcript

Dawn Wiggins [00:00:00]:

What happens when the biggest emotional transition of your life.

Dawn Wiggins [00:00:03]:

Read.

Dawn Wiggins [00:00:03]:

Divorce collides with the biggest physical one. Menopause doesn’t just steal your sleep. It messes with your hormones, your mood, your memory, your libido. And when it hits during or after divorce, it can make you question every dang thing. Your body, your choices, and especially your worth. Today, we have a treat. The women of Menopause Love Lounge are joining us here on Dear Divorce Diary. Six women, six stories to talk about the moment when hot flashes and heartbreak collided and how to turn the chaos of midlife into your comeback.

Dawn Wiggins [00:00:47]:

Hi, love. Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary, the podcast helping divorcees go beyond talk therapy to process your grief, find the healing you crave, and and build back your confidence. I’m your host, Dawn Wiggins, a therapist, coach, integrative healer, and divorce. Join me for a fresh approach to healing grief and building your confidence after divorce. What an exciting day. I am joined by the Women of Menopause Love Lounge, an amazing new podcast that. That I have been invited to. And so we have such a treat with us today.

Dawn Wiggins [00:01:27]:

Five powerhouse guests who are pulling back the curtain and sharing their own midlife confessions. The meltdowns, the miracles, and the messy middle of it all. At the top of the episode, I’m going to introduce each of the ladies of the lounge to you, and you’re going to hear each of them share what they noticed when relationship failure or struggles intersected with menopause. And then later, we’re actually going to look at some fascinating data that sort of talks about the. The likelihood of divorce happening during a menopausal season and how the research explains why so many women find themselves questioning everything between ages 40 and 55. And then at the end, we’re going to have a totally different flavor than we usually do on Dear Divorce Diary. We’re going to play a super fun game that we play over on Menopause Love Lounge. So if you love it, make sure you go over there to check it out.

Dawn Wiggins [00:02:19]:

It is going to be called Hot Flash or Red Flag. And it’s going to be hilarious and healing at the same time. Ladies, welcome to Dear Divorce Diary. Thank you for being here with me today.

Ozzie Osborne [00:02:32]:

Thanks for having us.

Dawn Wiggins [00:02:34]:

I am really excited to introduce each of you to our listeners because I’ve been over in Menopause Love Lounge, Menopausal Love Lounge with you ladies for, I don’t know, it’s been a couple months now.

Andrea Knoche [00:02:44]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:02:45]:

So I am really excited for our listeners on Dear Divorce Diary to get to meet my Friends. All right, so I’m going to introduce you as you share your sort of hot flash confession, right? So let’s start with this morning. Let’s start with sharing your oh moment where, like, heartbreak intersected with menopause. Andrea, let’s start with you, because you menopause Love Lounge is your brainchild. It’s your baby. You thought of it, you dreamed it up, you visioned it, and then you invited us all, and we are all so much more blessed because of your idea, baby. So thank you for being our divorced and hilarious, allergic to pretending host of the lounge.

Andrea Knoche [00:03:28]:

Thank you for having me, Dawn. I love that introduction. First of all, I love that y’ all think I’m so hilarious. I really try at that.

Dawn Wiggins [00:03:36]:

You keep us laughing.

Andrea Knoche [00:03:38]:

That’s my job. So for me, my oh, ship moment was. It was shortly after my divorce. So after I got divorced, I came out guns a blazing, and I. I’m like, I am getting back out there. I’m going to start dating, and I’m going young. That was my. My thought.

Andrea Knoche [00:03:55]:

Yeah. I’m like, get it, Andrea, right? And I’m like, oh, my body’s ready for this. I’m ready for a young man. I can do all this. So I started my search for this, like, young, attractive man on the dating apps. That’s where I went. I probably set my filter. I know it was under 30 because the guy I went out with was 29.

Andrea Knoche [00:04:12]:

So I know. And so, you know, I thought I was really ready for it. And I. And I felt I deserved it. I’m like, I’m ready for some hot, young sex. No joke. And I was like, okay, I’m ready for this. But what I wasn’t prepared for was the anxiousness that came along with, you know, not being chosen or being spoken to.

Andrea Knoche [00:04:34]:

Like, I was a hookup. Like, that’s how it felt because I was older. They’re like, ooh, a cougar. And, you know, all the young guys are all like, oh, but women are wiser and better in bed. Like, that’s what they all say, right? So it just gave me this, ugh, feeling. Like I didn’t feel like I thought I was gonna feel. I felt very, like, alone in it. And, you know, I started dating this guy, and it was for a few months before we were even intimate.

Andrea Knoche [00:04:58]:

And even up to the few months, it was a little difficult because, like, we went to a Bon Jovi concert, and he’s like, huh, who’s this?

Karen Viesta [00:05:03]:

Who is this?

Andrea Knoche [00:05:03]:

And I’m like, yeah, yeah, this is boring.

Laurie Gerber [00:05:06]:

I’m like.

Andrea Knoche [00:05:09]:

Yeah, so I was frustrated about that. But. But the first time you guys that we were intimate.

Laurie Gerber [00:05:17]:

When we went up.

Andrea Knoche [00:05:18]:

To his room, the lighting that had been set up, like, the mirrors that were strategically placed around the room, like, I walked into a porn shop, and I was like, oh, my God. But I’m. But I’m also like, I guess this is what they do with the young people, because I didn’t know divorce. You know, you’re. You’re coming out of being married. I was married for 20 years. And so I’m like, yeah. And so I’m like, this is what I’m gonna do.

Andrea Knoche [00:05:42]:

But what I was not prepared for, and y’ all are not gonna be prepared for this either, is when he climbed up on me and started slapping me in the face with his penis. And.

Laurie Gerber [00:05:52]:

Oh, my God. You had to let Ang go first.

Junie Moon [00:05:56]:

Was there any other way?

Andrea Knoche [00:05:58]:

No, I know. And you can find this episode on my podcast from Mrs. To Miss. It’s called Dick Slapped because.

Dawn Wiggins [00:06:06]:

Holy.

Andrea Knoche [00:06:07]:

That is exactly what happened. I was dodging this thing. Like, I’m like, he’s lost.

Dawn Wiggins [00:06:13]:

It’s down there.

Andrea Knoche [00:06:14]:

You know, I’m, like, trying to catch it with my mouth. It was a mess, you guys. And I started crying. I started crying in the middle of it. I became so emotional because I just didn’t see it coming. And no pun intended there, but I didn’t. And the fear and the insecurity that my body wasn’t perfect. I was so worried about all of that.

Andrea Knoche [00:06:34]:

And then he’s doing all of this. It was just so much. And so, yeah, it’s just a lot of it. And you’re. I know. I needed a good hug. Not a dick in the face. So anyways, my fear.

Andrea Knoche [00:06:46]:

I had a lot of fears going on there, you know, just that my libido wasn’t where it needed to be because I was 43, I think, at the time, so I was already going through perimenopause. You know, I was going through all of these different things. It was just too much. It was too much. And I think for me, that was definitely, oh, shit, what am I doing? And now I go older. The young guys ain’t got nothing that ain’t doing true.

Laurie Gerber [00:07:08]:

Don. Don, at the end of the episode, can Andrea tell us what happened after she started crying? Can we just have that as a cliffhanger?

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:15]:

Sure. Stay tuned.

Andrea Knoche [00:07:16]:

Stay tuned. There you go. Oh, shit.

Laurie Gerber [00:07:19]:

Because for me, that story is incomplete. Yeah.

Karen Viesta [00:07:22]:

What?

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:23]:

What a vulnerable and, I think, very relatable share. I don’t know about the dick slapping piece, but like about how hard that is to get back out there.

Karen Viesta [00:07:31]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:31]:

And not being not prepared for certain things.

Andrea Knoche [00:07:34]:

Well, and I think a lot of women that are going through divorce and a lot of your listeners can really relate to that because you’re lost coming out and you’re thinking, oh, I’m gonna go this route. This is where, oh, this is going to be right for me.

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:45]:

It’s going to solve everything.

Andrea Knoche [00:07:46]:

Yeah, it’s perfect. They’re going to love me. And then you are just so out of your element and you have to like regroup and figure out, okay, where am I? And so it was just take some time off and figure out what I’m looking for. That was definitely not the right route. Guns went back in.

Dawn Wiggins [00:08:04]:

Put your guns away.

Andrea Knoche [00:08:05]:

Put your guns away.

Dawn Wiggins [00:08:07]:

Okay. I would love to introduce Ozzy Osbourne. She is our straight talk life coach with main character energy. Ozzy. Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary.

Ozzie Osborne [00:08:18]:

Thank you for having me. How do you follow Dick Flats? I don’t know.

Andrea Knoche [00:08:22]:

With a good cry, that’s how.

Dawn Wiggins [00:08:25]:

Aw.

Ozzie Osborne [00:08:26]:

Oh, man. So, Maya.

Dawn Wiggins [00:08:28]:

Oh, when I was.

Ozzie Osborne [00:08:29]:

Thank you for that’s what a wonderful question because it brought me really far back. Well, far back about what, 14 years ago when I found out my then husband had an affair and where the oh shit moment was just my body. I almost felt like my soul left my body when I found the day I found out. And it was this, this almost undoing and the separation from. From me when I knew my body and then my soul kind of hovering above. And as he’s sharing details with me, I remember distinctly how there’s almost like a sense of. I’m getting a little emotional as I’m even thinking of it. But there was like a sense of I’m gonna be okay.

Ozzie Osborne [00:09:14]:

I’m gonna be okay. It was a. Eerily sense of calm, almost, almost godlike, almost to the spiritual moment of I’m gonna be okay. And I.

Dawn Wiggins [00:09:26]:

And right after you found out.

Ozzie Osborne [00:09:28]:

Right after I found out about the affair. Yeah. And I remember. I remember years later, as I was sort of getting to know my. My perimenopause journey, I remember that and the anxiety and, and the, the depression and the things that came with. With perimenopause and then not knowing what would happen. I remember feeling something similar where my. Again, my soul left the body and I was feeling the sense of like you to be okay.

Ozzie Osborne [00:10:00]:

It was this calm sense and, and I don’t know if, if you could connect the two. But I almost feel like that was preparing me for the undoing of who I was to then the becoming of who I get to be. And I think that, that, that, yeah, that. That was my ocean moment.

Karen Viesta [00:10:22]:

Wow.

Dawn Wiggins [00:10:22]:

So powerful.

Karen Viesta [00:10:24]:

Nice.

Laurie Gerber [00:10:25]:

That’s how you follow Dick’s lap.

Dawn Wiggins [00:10:32]:

I think that. Thank God for spirituality when we go through these types of transformations. Right. Whether it’s divorce or it’s menopause. And I love how you always bring us back to that, like, deeply powerful anchoring.

Andrea Knoche [00:10:45]:

Yeah.

Karen Viesta [00:10:47]:

Amazing.

Dawn Wiggins [00:10:49]:

Lori Gerber, our professional truth teller and newly minted host of your brand new podcast, Love at Any Age. Congrats, girl. A baby too. You have a baby?

Andrea Knoche [00:11:04]:

Yes.

Dawn Wiggins [00:11:05]:

Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary. Tell us about your oh, shit moment of, you know, relationship dysfunction meets menopause hormones.

Laurie Gerber [00:11:12]:

Yes. Okay, so I have shared this on Menopause Love Lounge, and I’m happy to say I’ve only had one oh, shit moment where those two collided. And I am speaking as someone who has been with the same man for 30 years. So this oh, shit moment happened about, oh, I wanna say, two years ago. Perimenopause going strong. I told my husband how I wanted the kitchen to get cleaned up. I thought I had all the rights in the world to lead the way on that particular evening. And he did not do it the way I asked.

Laurie Gerber [00:11:49]:

And I lost my mind. I lost my mind. And I don’t know, it was also an out of body experience, Ozzie, because I was just like, I’ll give up every. I’ll burn this place to the ground. Like, I, I don’t. I don’t care. I don’t care about anything. I was screaming like a maniac in front of my aunt, uncle, mother, my children.

Laurie Gerber [00:12:08]:

Like, I broke all my rules. I flipped out and I. And I, I think I even cried myself to sleep, which I don’t even think I’ve done since I was a teenager. So, I mean, yeah, it’s like a menopause billboard. It, it, it was so archetypical. Is that a word? It was. I felt that I was being very quintessential in. And I think maybe also for the first time, I went to bed angry.

Laurie Gerber [00:12:32]:

I was like, ready to be done. Like, this is. This is not okay. And I believe when my husband woke up the next morning, he was like, oh, and by the way, I’m usually wrong. Like, I’m usually wrong. I’m not like. And I’m okay that I’m wrong. I’m okay that I have to apologize.

Laurie Gerber [00:12:50]:

That is. It is Not a big feature of my relationship that my husband comes back and says, sorry. You know, I was. You know. And I don’t even know, by the way. I don’t think he was particularly wrong, honestly. I mean, I think I could argue both ways, but. But he did a little Googling on menopause overnight and ordered himself a book and just.

Laurie Gerber [00:13:12]:

And did the statistic, you know, looked up the research as to, you know, women asking for divorces during perimenopause. And he came back and said, I don’t really care who’s right or wrong. I’m. I’m gonna. I’m gonna listen better. I’m gonna say I’m sorry. And I’m gonna help you figure out what you need to feel calm enough in. In these moments.

Laurie Gerber [00:13:31]:

And it has been much better since. Wow.

Dawn Wiggins [00:13:34]:

Lori, on behalf of every single Dear Divorce Diary listener, do you think your husband would be our temporary, like, figure, like husband figurehead? Do you think you could adopt him? Do you think we could get him.

Junie Moon [00:13:46]:

His own email address?

Laurie Gerber [00:13:47]:

Can I tell you we’re sorry? He has been. He created a. A study, a whole study. He called it gynastrology. It was the. The. The male study of women’s spirituality. The study of women’s study of spirituality.

Laurie Gerber [00:14:04]:

He calls it gynastrology. And he has written about studying women’s spiritual study.

Karen Viesta [00:14:11]:

Whoa.

Laurie Gerber [00:14:12]:

So he. He is an ally. He really, really is an ally. He’s a good role model.

Dawn Wiggins [00:14:17]:

Okay, well, we’re going to have to. I admit it. Can we clone him?

Ozzie Osborne [00:14:21]:

And Andrea and I can. Can, you know, have.

Junie Moon [00:14:23]:

He would. He would be a guest.

Laurie Gerber [00:14:25]:

He would be a guest and he would be funny. But he also takes a really long time to make a point, though, so that’s something. Something you have to keep in mind.

Junie Moon [00:14:34]:

Drive you crazy.

Dawn Wiggins [00:14:39]:

All right, Juni Moon. Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary, our intimacy whisper and the woman who helps us really understand how to trade people pleasing for pleasure. Welcome and tell us about your oh, shit moment.

Junie Moon [00:14:59]:

Yeah. Who I am. What you just described is perfect for my oh, shit, oh, shit, oh, shit, oh, shit. Because I had a few oh, shit moments. So I was dating, so I wasn’t even in a relationship when the shit hit the fan where my vagina just was like, ouch. You know, I mean, like, seriously. And I know I spoke about this on the Menopause Love Lounge, where it literally felt like razor blades. And after so many years of being in a marriage where intimacy was so challenged and I wasn’t getting my needs met and I Had to really learn how to take care of myself and be able to have good communication and set boundaries, which never worked in my.

Junie Moon [00:15:42]:

My marriage. And, and being able to really take care of myself, to suddenly be dating and having this issue, it really dropped me into a very scary place because I suddenly went back into who’s gonna want me? Can I even have pleasure anymore? All the stuff, you know, and thankfully, because of the tools that I have been. What is it honing in on all these years? Right. And what I teach, I really embrace this moment as a. Okay, how do I have a better communication with people to say, hey, there’s nothing wrong with me? I need to, to have some help here and to actually dialogue about it differently. So it actually empowered me. It actually brought me closer to taking better, deeper care for myself and, and also reaching out to professionals to find out what could I do differently. So, yeah, I felt betrayed by my pussy and it was so sad.

Junie Moon [00:16:46]:

I always loved sex and I never got to have the deep pleasure I wanted with my husband. And here I am going, oh my God. And now I’m broken. But the good news is I’m not broken and I’m totally fine now.

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:59]:

So having grief sex was hard. Yeah.

Junie Moon [00:17:01]:

And having great sex. Absolutely great, juicy sex.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:04]:

Yeah. The having Great Sex, Part 2. I think that nobody’s going to want me. Like, I don’t hear enough of this conversation. And maybe, maybe it’s because I’m still on the younger side of perimenopause. But women talking about being divorced and dating and dealing with menopause and not feeling that sort of attractiveness that we associate with youth and not knowing how to own our sexiness and our attractiveness and our pleasure. In this season of Life, I think men expecting women to look young and all of that, I think women get really overwhelmed by that. So thank you so much for calling.

Junie Moon [00:17:36]:

Thank you, Karen.

Andrea Knoche [00:17:37]:

Vs by your hello.

Junie Moon [00:17:41]:

A whole episode on itself.

Andrea Knoche [00:17:43]:

That’s a great line.

Ozzie Osborne [00:17:45]:

We need an episode for her pussy.

Karen Viesta [00:17:46]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:47]:

Karen, welcome to Dear Divorce Diary. We love the show. Well, again, woman redefining midlife that you host, you are one of our wellness realists and you help women learn that hormones, sleep and sanity can coexist. Yes, they can tell us about your oh shit moment.

Karen Viesta [00:18:07]:

So I’ll, I’ll. Before I even tell you that moment, what I will say, because I know your audience is an audience of divorced women and I know that they will get this. I found that even when you are the one ending the marriage, divorce is so traumatic. It was Traumatic for me physically. It was traumatic for me emotionally. It was traumatic for me as a parent.

Laurie Gerber [00:18:29]:

And.

Karen Viesta [00:18:30]:

And in the year that followed my divorce, I developed such acute anxiety that I really didn’t know what to do. I saw therapists, I saw doctors. I, you know, took all the supplements, went to acupuncture, all the things. And it was creeping into my life in other ways. You know, it wasn’t just waking up in the morning feeling anxious, but it was being out in public and feeling a wave of anxiety coming on or being with other couples and feeling like I didn’t quite fit in. People I used to hang out with suddenly didn’t feel comfortable. I felt like a fifth wheel. So all of these things were just increasing anxiety.

Karen Viesta [00:19:12]:

Now, the sidebar to this, the side conversation is that, you know, what I was attributing to my divorce anxiety also, you know, as I later came to learn, had very real physical reasons. Right. I was. I was in the middle of perimenopause as well. And the oh, shit moment was when I was sharing earlier that I was in a supermarket food shopping in the middle of the day, feeling fine, when I walked in, and just suddenly had this panic attack coming on, and I didn’t know what to do. And I left the wagon and I ran out to my car and I ran home. And all of the anxiety was being compounded by such an intense loneliness because going out no longer felt comfortable for me, and I just had lost the ability. Probably, you know, perimenopause does this to us, but I lost the ability to put on a smile and fake it.

Karen Viesta [00:20:12]:

I preferred to be by myself at home than going out and putting on an act, and. And I was withdrawing more and more. And it wasn’t really until I took matters into my own hands and I became certified in women’s wellness, and I really went into this deep dive into what’s going on for me physically, but also what’s going on for me emotionally. And when I attacked it from both of those angles, I was able to make myself feel better, and I was able to get myself back on track. So I guess the message in it for your listeners is it is quite possible. You know, it takes a lot of work, but it’s possible to get there for sure.

Dawn Wiggins [00:20:53]:

Yeah, that’s amazing. I’m going to piggyback on something that you said, which is that you lost the ability to just sort of put on a smile and go about it, right? And I think when we talk about the intersection of perimenopause and Relationship health or relationship breakdown and divorce. That’s a really interesting and powerful inquiry. Is menopause the truth serum that burns away everything else so then we can’t fake it in relationships anymore in the.

Andrea Knoche [00:21:24]:

Way that we used to?

Laurie Gerber [00:21:25]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:21:25]:

Certainly brings it to life. And I know Ozzy and I were talking recently about Dr. Mindy Pelz and her research and menopause and all of that. And I heard her talk about how when we hit puberty, how our brain map changes because the hormones flood in and then we become women who adap in relationship. And when menopause comes and those hormones flood out, all of a sudden we’re no longer motivated to adapt in relationship in the way that the hormones facilitated. And so if that relationship isn’t adapting with us, it’s like, can it withstand the toll of perimenopause and menopause?

Andrea Knoche [00:22:04]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:22:05]:

Fascinating.

Ozzie Osborne [00:22:06]:

So good.

Dawn Wiggins [00:22:06]:

Okay, so real friends, let’s talk about some of the data that just sort of grounds everything that y’ all have just shared. Right. So here’s some stats. Jump in wherever women are twice as likely to initiate divorce after 40. So like at that intersection of perimenopause, do you see that in your own marriages, in your friends, in your. Yeah.

Karen Viesta [00:22:28]:

What?

Dawn Wiggins [00:22:29]:

You know.

Andrea Knoche [00:22:30]:

Yes, that was me.

Laurie Gerber [00:22:32]:

You can stop saying I’m staying for the kids, first of all. Second of all, you no longer have the buffer.

Ozzie Osborne [00:22:40]:

Yeah, before, but yeah, I, I certainly know that a lot of people’s marriage.

Junie Moon [00:22:44]:

It’S a wake up call. Menopause is a wake up. And it’s a, it’s a time for us to like, put a stake in the ground and say, it’s my turn. Is this working for me? And if it’s not, I’m out of here, you know? So, yeah, I really think we give ourselves permission to really step into new chapters when this time happens for us.

Andrea Knoche [00:23:02]:

That was exactly what I did at the, at the time, my ex husband hadn’t been working for a while, so I was paying all of the bills all of the time. Everything was on me. He was on tour with my son for Kidz Bop. I was not in love with him anymore. And I had that oh, shit moment of like, okay, Andrea, shoulder, get off the pot. Really? Like, you are now 40, you’re in your early 40s and you’re not getting any younger. Your body is going through all these changes, like, let’s go now, because I don’t want to waste another 10 years or whatever in a relationship that no longer serves me. And I just felt like There was something more for him and I out there separately.

Andrea Knoche [00:23:42]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Karen Viesta [00:23:44]:

Wow.

Dawn Wiggins [00:23:45]:

So this is not going to be a shocker, but 68% of women report that midlife hormonal shifts intensified their marital dissatisfaction. So it’s sort of all pointing right to this idea that when a decline in hormones like oxytocin, serotonin, you name it.

Karen Viesta [00:24:01]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:24:02]:

Those are the chemicals that buffer that you mentioned. There’s no buffer left. Yeah. So it’s like, oh, crap. So it’s really interesting to consider how many divorces are actually hormone divorces in disguise. What are your thoughts?

Karen Viesta [00:24:17]:

I think it requires a great deal of energy to make something okay, to try to fit a square peg into a round hole, as they say. Like, it requires a lot of energy when you’re in a relationship and it’s not really supportive to you and it’s draining you and it’s requiring a lot of repair and it’s requiring a lot of suppression and that’s exhausting. And I think that the menopause transition, our bodies have to allocate our energy to what’s happening physically. We no longer have the energy reserves to be able to maintain relationships that are not solid, that are not healthy. And so I think whether women realize that on a conscious level or not, part of what’s happening is that we just can no longer forge ahead. We can do that when we’re young, but when we get to this stage, it drains us. It exhausts us in a way that we just can’t ignore it anymore.

Andrea Knoche [00:25:18]:

Yeah.

Junie Moon [00:25:18]:

Well said.

Karen Viesta [00:25:20]:

Glorie, tell us.

Laurie Gerber [00:25:22]:

I want to talk about being with the same guy for 30 years. And I just want to say the foundation of our relationship was in self help and transformation. I mean, we fell in love because of Headheart and Hoo ha. Right. We were a practical match. We cared about each other and we were attracted to each other. But we started doing personal growth when we were in our 20s together. And I’m saying it because it’s why we can weather these storms.

Laurie Gerber [00:25:50]:

Because we said in sickness and health and he’s had sickness and health and I’ve had sickness and health and he’s had changes and I’ve had changes and we’ve weathered it because of what we were grounded in. And that’s the opportunity of the second time around after divorce. And because you got married when you were in your 20s or your 30s and there was no self help back then, or maybe you didn’t have it or you didn’t know about it or.

Dawn Wiggins [00:26:11]:

Something prioritized it or whatever.

Laurie Gerber [00:26:13]:

And he didn’t. And then you were raising kids and having work, and now you’re in your 40s and 50s and it’s like, oh, I really can try. And the men are divorced too, and they’re seeking help too, and getting better too. So now there’s this whole new great opportunity to actually start your next love relationship. This is my specialty in my work from that perspective, you know, from the grounding of personal growth, which is what you need. The communication tools, the truth telling. That’s what you need for the. The predictable fluctuations that will be happening for the rest of your life as you age.

Laurie Gerber [00:26:48]:

And he’ll be having them too. So that’s my plug for hope.

Karen Viesta [00:26:55]:

Well said.

Dawn Wiggins [00:26:56]:

And I think Junie would. Would second that in her current relationship. I would certainly third that in my marriage. Like.

Andrea Knoche [00:27:02]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:27:02]:

Without these tools and the willingness. Yeah. Karen.

Junie Moon [00:27:05]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:27:05]:

You just went through a big thing where you were speaking your truth and it went over so well because you’re in a relationship where there’s an investment in.

Andrea Knoche [00:27:13]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:27:14]:

Problem solving and collaboration and. Well said.

Junie Moon [00:27:18]:

An investment in the relationship to take it to that higher level and not just do what we’ve always done. So.

Laurie Gerber [00:27:25]:

Yeah.

Junie Moon [00:27:26]:

Like again, another plus one to. To Laurie. Because when we have done the inner work and we have the tools, it. There’s less drama. There’s just less. It’s. The challenges are there, but it’s. It’s not these big tidal waves.

Junie Moon [00:27:40]:

It’s more like choppy waters and you know, how to navigate it in a different way. With love in the container, with the tools, with the paddle. Because I didn’t have a paddle in my 20 year marriage and it was painful.

Dawn Wiggins [00:27:53]:

And this idea of mutual support. Right. When two people are contributing, everything is easier.

Karen Viesta [00:27:59]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Ozzie Osborne [00:28:00]:

Because I’ll speak for the singles and say that, you know, I’ve been single and, and some of the things that you guys were saying in terms of. Well, first of all, I don’t have the extra support. I mean, I do through friends, but I don’t have a partner to sort of lean on.

Karen Viesta [00:28:12]:

Right.

Ozzie Osborne [00:28:13]:

And also I don’t have the tolerance to. For the dating world or the, or just the nuance of dating. The focus is on me. The focus isn’t on what I’m going through. And so I’ve just put dating on hold. I just chose me and I said for now until I sort of come back into my body. I come back into a place of regularity and a place where I feel that I’m sexy and that I’m feeling good in my body. I think I would step into dating again, but I.

Ozzie Osborne [00:28:46]:

I took a break.

Karen Viesta [00:28:47]:

I love that you said that, Ozzie, because I think it’s so important, especially in this midlife stage where we are dealing with so much physically to really feel really good ourselves before jumping back into dating. You know, for me, it took me over a year of just really taking great care of myself because I knew that until I did that I wouldn’t be healthy in a relationship, you know, and I. And so I really applaud you doing that. I know how you feel and I know, you know how depleted we can be for a lot of reasons. And you don’t want to be dating with that energy. You know, Nobody wants to be dating unless they feel really great themselves.

Dawn Wiggins [00:29:33]:

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche [00:29:35]:

I’m waiting on that day for Ozzy. Her and I are going out on the prowl.

Dawn Wiggins [00:29:41]:

Out on the prowl. Love it. Love. Okay, loves. Can we show our listeners on Dear divorce Diary this fun game that we play at the end of menopause love lounge?

Karen Viesta [00:29:52]:

Yes.

Andrea Knoche [00:29:52]:

Yes.

Karen Viesta [00:29:53]:

Okay.

Andrea Knoche [00:29:53]:

Yes.

Dawn Wiggins [00:29:53]:

Amazing. Does everybody have their paddle? If you.

Karen Viesta [00:29:55]:

I don’t.

Andrea Knoche [00:29:56]:

We do.

Dawn Wiggins [00:29:57]:

Okay, you. If you’re not. If you’re listening, you can’t see our paddles. Right? So for this game, we are playing hot flash or red flag. So the idea is that I’m going to read a few scenarios that could totally happen mid divorce, mid menopause, mid meltdown. And each of you are going to vote. Is it just a hormonal moment or is it a full blown relationship? Red flag. So are we going to do green for hormones and red for red flag? Okay.

Dawn Wiggins [00:30:25]:

Because we have our two sided paddles, right? And there’s a green and there’s a red. Okay, let’s play.

Andrea Knoche [00:30:30]:

You ready? Yes.

Dawn Wiggins [00:30:31]:

All right, first one, he says you’ve.

Junie Moon [00:30:35]:

Been already moody lately.

Dawn Wiggins [00:30:40]:

Is it. Is this a hot flash or a relationship red flag?

Andrea Knoche [00:30:45]:

I think it’s this.

Laurie Gerber [00:30:48]:

We’re letting him. We’re letting him make one comment.

Karen Viesta [00:30:53]:

Yes.

Andrea Knoche [00:30:53]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:30:54]:

Maybe. Maybe we have been moody lately and he’s just making an observation. All right, so your. Depends on that.

Laurie Gerber [00:31:00]:

Depends on the tone. Is it compassionate or accusatory?

Junie Moon [00:31:07]:

But also, is she shoving emotions down where she’s starting to get moody? And that might have nothing to do with hormones just not expressing herself. So that’s why I was kind of kind of flip flopping, doing both.

Dawn Wiggins [00:31:18]:

I love it.

Karen Viesta [00:31:19]:

Flip flop.

Dawn Wiggins [00:31:20]:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, next one. You suddenly want to throw out everything you own and start over. Is this a midlife Purge hot flash. Or is this like an existential red flag?

Laurie Gerber [00:31:32]:

It is green.

Karen Viesta [00:31:34]:

I love a good purge.

Dawn Wiggins [00:31:35]:

Okay.

Karen Viesta [00:31:38]:

Cutting those baby bangs. We’re good, right?

Andrea Knoche [00:31:40]:

Oh, my God.

Karen Viesta [00:31:41]:

When you know it’s a red flag when you’re about to cut the bangs. Baby bangs.

Laurie Gerber [00:31:46]:

I’ve had bangs.

Junie Moon [00:31:47]:

Those moments a few weeks ago.

Dawn Wiggins [00:31:48]:

What the heck? But you didn’t do it. I didn’t do it.

Junie Moon [00:31:52]:

Yes. I’m post menopausal.

Andrea Knoche [00:31:54]:

Yes.

Karen Viesta [00:31:54]:

Thank God.

Andrea Knoche [00:31:55]:

It’s a good two year mistake on that one.

Dawn Wiggins [00:32:01]:

Okay, awesome. Ready for the next one?

Andrea Knoche [00:32:02]:

Yes.

Junie Moon [00:32:03]:

This is.

Dawn Wiggins [00:32:04]:

This one is in the zone. The. Solidly in the divorce zone. Right. Regarding the ex, he texts, hope you’re doing okay. Right after posting a vacation pic with someone new. Oh, oh, red flag.

Andrea Knoche [00:32:22]:

Or we posted the photo.

Karen Viesta [00:32:25]:

Or he posted. Posted the photo.

Dawn Wiggins [00:32:27]:

He posted the photo.

Junie Moon [00:32:28]:

He posted it and then checked in with you.

Laurie Gerber [00:32:31]:

Yeah.

Karen Viesta [00:32:32]:

I wish this was a different finger for that.

Ozzie Osborne [00:32:36]:

Yeah, right?

Dawn Wiggins [00:32:37]:

It’s more like that.

Ozzie Osborne [00:32:39]:

Or like.

Dawn Wiggins [00:32:39]:

Can we say we did an entire episode on. This is classic avoidant attachment style. Man move like.

Ozzie Osborne [00:32:46]:

Yeah, yeah.

Laurie Gerber [00:32:48]:

Validation. Validation of your divorce.

Andrea Knoche [00:32:51]:

100.

Laurie Gerber [00:32:51]:

Yeah. So yes. Validate that divorce.

Dawn Wiggins [00:32:55]:

Okay, this next one is really, really good. He blames your night sweats for why you don’t touch him anymore. Hot flash excuse or red flag deflection.

Ozzie Osborne [00:33:05]:

No blame, baby. No blame. Blame is a red flag.

Laurie Gerber [00:33:09]:

Yeah, it’s a bummer he’s not smarter.

Junie Moon [00:33:14]:

Let’s blame him for that.

Laurie Gerber [00:33:16]:

Is not very nuanced. Chad. I think Chad might be. This might be Chad’s level of intelligence. Could be.

Dawn Wiggins [00:33:27]:

Could be, could be. Okay, okay, this is a good one. You feel ragey when he breathes too loud. Is it menopausal or is it zone in on Lori in here.

Junie Moon [00:33:42]:

I’m going here.

Andrea Knoche [00:33:43]:

Relationship red flag.

Laurie Gerber [00:33:45]:

Yeah. Because what?

Junie Moon [00:33:46]:

Again? I. I lived it. I lived it for so many years where I just kept pushing down my feelings and I just. The resentment build and built and then it was just like, ah, his breath, you know, whatever it was.

Karen Viesta [00:33:56]:

Right.

Junie Moon [00:33:57]:

So, yeah, maybe this.

Andrea Knoche [00:33:58]:

But could be both.

Dawn Wiggins [00:33:59]:

Could be both.

Andrea Knoche [00:34:00]:

Lori’s got a list.

Laurie Gerber [00:34:01]:

Oh, my God. They have to be alive. They do. They do have to be alive.

Dawn Wiggins [00:34:05]:

Okay, last one, last one. You wake up at 3am wanting both a divorce and a croissant. Normal perimenopause craving or red flag that you need your freaking freedom.

Laurie Gerber [00:34:20]:

Follow the.

Andrea Knoche [00:34:21]:

When you say it that way.

Junie Moon [00:34:25]:

Middle.

Dawn Wiggins [00:34:25]:

Middle.

Andrea Knoche [00:34:26]:

Yeah, it is. It’s a flip. It’s a flipper.

Dawn Wiggins [00:34:28]:

It’s a flipper. It could be both. It is Both perimenopause and assigned to have a consultation with your favorite family law attorney.

Karen Viesta [00:34:37]:

But, you know, we can’t believe anything we think in the middle of the night. It’s like all the darkest, most awful thoughts in the middle of the night.

Laurie Gerber [00:34:44]:

Yeah, you shouldn’t believe in your mind makes up. Anyway, you have to do the croissant test, which is have it in the morning and see if you feel better. And then you’ll know if a croissant is actually good for you. And you’ll also know if you still want a divorce.

Dawn Wiggins [00:34:57]:

You heard it here, ladies love croissant. Croissant.

Andrea Knoche [00:35:02]:

Chocolate croissant.

Ozzie Osborne [00:35:03]:

I was just gonna ask that Andrea.

Andrea Knoche [00:35:04]:

I might get up for that.

Laurie Gerber [00:35:05]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:35:07]:

I called producer Joy this morning, and she was at Sam’s club, and she’s like, I’m at Sam’s club.

Ozzie Osborne [00:35:11]:

What do you need?

Dawn Wiggins [00:35:11]:

I was like, a box of croissants. All right, darlings, thank you so much for joining us here in Dear Divorce Diary. Ladies, if you want more of these amazing women you heard today, you can find Menopause Love Lounge anywhere.

Ozzie Osborne [00:35:27]:

You.

Dawn Wiggins [00:35:27]:

You get podcasts, and so just search it up. We’re on Instagram. We are on YouTube. When you watch it live, it’s funnier. And, ladies, thank you so much for being here today, for being my friends, for helping me just enjoy midlife in a completely different way. I love you all so much.

Karen Viesta [00:35:46]:

Love you too.

Andrea Knoche [00:35:47]:

Yes, thank you. Thanks for having us.

Laurie Gerber [00:35:49]:

Bye.

Dawn Wiggins [00:35:59]:

Dear Divorce Diary is a podcast by My Coach Dawn. You can find more mycoachdawn.com.