Emotional Safety in Parenting with Reem Raudha

5 Key Takeaways

1. Emotional safety is presence, not peace.  When we hear “emotional safety,” most of us picture calm, collected, peaceful moments. But that’s not what our children actually need, especially during transitions like divorce. During her own divorce, Reem’s seven-year-old exhibited new, defiant behaviors and even hitting. Her anchor through these storms? Remembering that emotional safety means holding him when he’s literally hitting her, staying present when every instinct screams to react.
   Micro-action: The next time your child has a big emotion, take three deep breaths before responding, reminding yourself that your presence matters more than peace.
2. Children’s behavior often signals hurt. Here’s a truth that changes everything: what looks like disrespect is almost always hurt underneath. Reem shares a moment at a friend’s barbecue when her son refused to get out of the car, yelling and having a big moment. She could feel the judgment from others who saw defiance and expected her to be stern. But she saw what was really there: a hurting child.
   When we truly see behavior as communication rather than disrespect, everything shifts. Our children aren’t trying to manipulate us or challenge our authority. They’re signaling that something hurts, something feels unsafe, something needs our attention.
   Micro-action: When your child acts out, pause and ask yourself, “What might be hurting right now?” before responding.
3. Boundaries support emotional safety. This might sound contradictory, but boundaries and emotional safety aren’t opposites — they’re partners. Children crave boundaries, but boundaries support emotional safety when they’re rooted in connection, not control. You can still have rules in your home. You can still have non-negotiables around health and safety. The difference is whether you’re upholding those boundaries from a place of being present and connected, or from a place of fear and rigidity. During family transitions, children need the structure of boundaries even more. But they also need the reassurance that those boundaries come from love, not abandonment.
   Micro-action: Choose one boundary in your home and examine whether it’s rooted in connection or control.
4. Repair changes a child’s internal story. Of all the tools in our parenting toolkit, repair might be the most powerful for creating emotional safety during family transitions. When there’s conflict, chaos, and confusion — which let’s be honest, is constant during divorce — repair can completely change the story our children hold about themselves and about us.
   But repair goes beyond just talking about feelings. It’s about circling back after we’ve lost it, after we’ve yelled, after we’ve reacted from our own wounds. That said, repair isn’t a substitute for doing our own inner work. We can’t just keep igniting the same fires and getting better at putting them out. We need to stop the ignition in the first place.
   Micro-action: Tonight, ask your child how their heart is doing and create space for whatever answer comes.
5. Parental nervous systems set the tone. Our children’s emotional regulation is directly connected to our own. A parent’s nervous system sets the emotional tone of the home. But that doesn’t mean suppressing our emotions or performing some gentle parenting script while we’re angry. True emotional safety requires that we actually do the inner work — understanding our wounds, our triggers, our patterns, and our conditioned beliefs. The temptation to focus on “fixing” your child’s behavior rather than witnessing your own reactions is overwhelming. But managing our own emotions is the focus. Not managing theirs.
   Micro-action: When you feel triggered, pause and ask, “What wound from my childhood is this touching?” before addressing your child’s behavior.

   Remember: Emotional safety is built through consistency, not perfection.

Highlights

• 00:00 Parenting Post-Divorce: Real-Life Strategies
• 05:41 True Emotional Safety Explained
• 07:00 Navigating Parenting Challenges
• 09:54 Self-Care and Understanding Moments
• 13:41 Parenting Challenges and Insights
• 16:51 “Actions Speak Over Words”
• 20:03 Biodome Experiment: Thriving Without Wind
• 25:37 “Embracing Repair in Relationships”
• 28:38 Childhood Ignition and Parenthood
• 31:43 Parenting Extremes: Feral vs. Strict
• 32:56 Balancing Emotional and Practical Concerns
• 38:08 Parent-Child Journals and Healing
• 40:10 “Transformational Healing Through Compassion”
• 45:17 Embracing Discomfort in Emotions
• 46:33 “Resilience vs. Pacification”

Full Transcript

Dawn Wiggins [00:00:00]:

On today’s episode, we are diving into the real, real life complexities of parenting after divorce. Not the Pinterest perfect kind, but the messy, beautiful, growth filled kind. My guest, Reem Raudha, a parenting expert who’s redefining what it means to raise resilient, emotionally healthy kids in the middle of major life transitions. Whether you’re co parenting, solo parenting, or figuring it all out one meltdown at a time, this episode is for you, loves. We are so lucky to have Reem Rauda with us today. She is a parenting expert known if you don’t follow her on ig, like rush to follow her on ig. Right? She is a parenting expert known for helping caregivers raise emotionally healthy kids without losing themselves in the process. With a background in psychology and a heart for real life parenting, not perfection, she guides families through transitions like divorce with empathy, clarity, and practical tools.

Dawn Wiggins [00:00:59]:

Her mission is simple. To help parents break generational cycles and build deep, lasting connection with their kiddos, even in the messiest seasons. Reem, welcome.

Reem Raudha [00:01:09]:

Thank you so much for having me.

Dawn Wiggins [00:01:12]:

It is a long time coming. I feel like to have you. I’m super picky about guests, like, super picky. And I found you on Instagram one day and was so excited to see your journals. Right. You have multiple journals and I immediately bought one and then featured. Featured one of them on the podcast and. And then that’s it.

Dawn Wiggins [00:01:36]:

Right. We connected on IG and I’m so excited. But your content on IG is so profoundly spot on. Right. It speaks to the heart of the issue. You don’t deliver a lot of very hard truths on there and responding positively. Do you agree?

Reem Raudha [00:01:51]:

Yes. I get a little nervous each time I press, you know, share.

Dawn Wiggins [00:01:56]:

I love hearing you say that because.

Reem Raudha [00:01:58]:

I know they are, you know, raw and bold and, you know, truth bombs. But that’s, you know, why I post them. They are truths that we need to hear and need to face and need to understand and look in the mirror and face these, you know, ugly truths because these, the. This is the only way to, you know, change, transform.

Dawn Wiggins [00:02:24]:

Yeah, talk about that a lot over here. Number one, I know our listeners have this desire to break the cycle, but then in the cycle, breaking it often feels lonely, hard, like endless challenges. Right. But also we talk about that idea that a person can only grow, grow in direct proportion to how honest they can be about, like, facing themselves and the things they really don’t want to see or understand about their own selves.

Reem Raudha [00:02:50]:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:02:51]:

And that’s what you do. You show Us. Our.

Reem Raudha [00:02:54]:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I. I hope it doesn’t seem like it’s coming from a higher place. It’s. It’s coming from an experienced place of, you know, being at rock bottom and, you know, having a breakdown, mental breakdown, and literally shattering and then starting fresh and having that experience of, you know, a before and after with. With my child because of that. So I share it to inspire, to help, and to really show parents that, you know, they’re not stuck.

Reem Raudha [00:03:30]:

Because so many of us, like, I felt stuck. I felt okay. Wow, this is extremely challenging. And this is how it’s going to be. And then that’s not the truth at all. Once I had my moment, had my epiphany, you know, did the work and all the stuff that’s in Foundations, the journal. It’s such a. It lifts weight off of you.

Reem Raudha [00:03:57]:

And you see that parenting isn’t so hard. It isn’t. It shouldn’t be that hard. We make it hard for our.

Dawn Wiggins [00:04:03]:

I know, but I think that. And this is a different tangent. We don’t need to go down, but I think we’ve been so that lie on so many levels that. That we’re supposed to stay moderately sick and everything’s supposed to be. Parenting is hard and health is hard and menopause is everything.

Reem Raudha [00:04:18]:

Yeah. It’s not.

Dawn Wiggins [00:04:19]:

We’re not supposed to be this out of balance or out of alignment. And we’re certainly not meant to be chronically out of alignment the way we seem to have just been told, like, oh, that’s. You’re just. That’s just how it is.

Reem Raudha [00:04:30]:

Yeah, no, exactly. Exactly.

Dawn Wiggins [00:04:33]:

So I have some beautiful queen questions for you hate. So you can, you know, teach us all the things we’re missing. I love that you said it’s not coming from a higher place, and I love that you shared the rock bottom that you came from. You know, I’m sure there’s people who are committed to hearing to. To seeing you as like someone who thinks they’re better than. But I don’t read your content that way at all. I think you share a lot vulnerably about the things you’ve transformed. And to me, they.

Dawn Wiggins [00:05:04]:

Your content reads is very integrated, someone who’s speaking from experience and that and science. Right. And I think those two things combined are so powerful good from that experience and that wisdom that also science adds to it. We talk a lot about emotional safety these days, and I sort of don’t love that concept of emotional safety because I think a lot of times we too often are trying to outsource our emotional safety to our environment. Right. And we have to own that. But. So I’m be so curious to hear what your take is.

Dawn Wiggins [00:05:33]:

But what do most people misunderstand about creating emotional safety in parenting, especially to do with divorce?

Reem Raudha [00:05:41]:

Okay. Well, I think the idea or what we hear when we hear emotional safety is calm, collected, peaceful. And that’s not it at all, really. Especially after divorce or during divorce, there is conflict. There is not a lot of calm. And maintaining emotional safety during, I mean, during the hard times, but always is not about keeping the peace. It’s about being so present that you allow all of those feelings, you allow all of those big, big emotions and that your children know they can have them and you’re not going anywhere and, and you’re not shaking and you’re, you’re. Your acceptance and understanding.

Reem Raudha [00:06:31]:

I mean, that’s part of it though, is that we need that understanding to have. To not self abandon.

Dawn Wiggins [00:06:38]:

Right? To not self abandon.

Reem Raudha [00:06:40]:

Exactly. I’m seeing a lot. I don’t know if you. I’m going through a divorce right now, and my son, who’s 7, is having a lot of behavioral changes and emotions and, and conflict and.

Dawn Wiggins [00:06:56]:

Which we would expect. Right. If he wasn’t, we would say something’s off.

Reem Raudha [00:07:00]:

Yes. Yes. And it’s been, though, extremely challenging just because of the new defiance, the new hitting, the new. All the stuff that’s coming with it that is so not normal in our home and reacting, responding in a way that I truly have to just go so bare to the bone and see what is actually happening. So that my nervous system, so my triggers, so my ego, so my hormones don’t react, you know, and. And he needs my emotional safety more than anything in this whole world right now in those hard moments. And can I show up? Can I give it to him? Can I hold him when he’s literally hitting me? Or do I, you know, I know we’re human. And it’s.

Reem Raudha [00:07:56]:

I’ve had moments where I’ve yelled and I’ve, you know, I just broke because I’m getting it from many different directions right now. And it’s almost impossible to day after day be able to hold your child the way they need to be held. But let me tell you, it is extremely hard. But emotional safety is my anchor. That is what I keep telling myself my child needs. And that’s what is keeping me anchored in that moment. And just.

Dawn Wiggins [00:08:33]:

So it’s about holding space. It’s about you having capacity for his emotional expression.

Reem Raudha [00:08:40]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:08:41]:

And then it sounds like there’s a lot of discernment involved in knowing how to respond in that moment based on what’s unfolding. Right.

Reem Raudha [00:08:51]:

Because.

Dawn Wiggins [00:08:52]:

So how would you, for instance, because I’m sure there’s a redirect around hitting. Right. But knowing when and how to implement that takes that presence you talked about being really, really present. And then also where are you going to dump your rage and your anxiety and your panic and your whatever. Because that’s what he’s doing. Right? He’s expressing appropriate rage and distress and whatever. But then yes, to your point, it’s like, okay, you have cultivated this amazing nervous system capacity to tolerate his big emotions without your ego getting all in the way. But that is an energetic exchange that then you have to discharge yourself.

Reem Raudha [00:09:33]:

Yes. Yeah, I’ve been leaning on my friends more than ever. I’m. I’m usually not the type to call up a girlfriend and be like, I need you. But I am these days I’m like, I need you. I just need to vent. I need to, I need support. I’m doing the best to keep my self care routine like long walks, baths, my sleep is very important.

Reem Raudha [00:09:54]:

I’m meditating more than I normally do. So I’m taking care of myself. The adaptogens teas all day, you know, doing all the things. A little story a couple of weeks ago we went to my friend, had it over for a barbecue and my son was having a hard day and refused to get out of the car and was very, you know, kind of yelling at me and just having a big moment. And I remember feeling, you know, for the people watching, expecting me to, you know, be really rigid. Yeah. But, but expecting me to be more stern. And they were seeing his defiance as disrespect where I was seeing it as hurt.

Reem Raudha [00:10:50]:

And really that’s underneath all tantrums, it’s hurt, especially around the D word. So it was just so interesting for. I just felt so like this is what the traditional projections and judgments that. Yes.

Dawn Wiggins [00:11:09]:

The things they project onto.

Reem Raudha [00:11:11]:

Yeah. And, and, and then my way, which is completely different. It really is different. I mean, to the traditional way. And I’m trying to bring people more on my end because if I had done what they would have suggested or I should do, it would have broken my son in a million more pieces than he already was.

Dawn Wiggins [00:11:33]:

You know, Right then we have suppressed and repressed nervous system distress in the body.

Reem Raudha [00:11:38]:

Yes. Yeah. And so I, it’s, it takes a really bold parent to first educate themselves on what’s really going on. Because without that understanding, it’s all, you know, it’s not authentic. And it won’t. It won’t. You won’t have it to find.

Dawn Wiggins [00:11:58]:

Yeah. There’s not capacity. Right. Information alone is not capacity in the nervous system. Yeah.

Reem Raudha [00:12:02]:

Yeah. So we have to truly, truly see the behavior for what it is, which is an expression of hurt. And it’s not, you know, you can’t take it personally. You can’t. You can’t get offended. You. You might, but it’s.

Dawn Wiggins [00:12:22]:

I do.

Reem Raudha [00:12:23]:

Yeah. You know, but where is that going to get you? And then will react with anger and frustration and you will just widen the gap. So it’s. Takes so much hard work to get there and. And healing and understanding your wounds and your triggers and your pattern patterns and your conditioned beliefs. And that’s why it has to be done if you really want to show up. Because I. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:12:55]:

Yeah. Do you ever do any somatics with your son? Like, we’re big fans over here of like, pillow throwing, like, you know, like discharging stuff, like physically.

Reem Raudha [00:13:06]:

Yeah. That stuff with him, the only thing I’ve done with him, we do breath work together. Yeah. And I’ve taught him to take long, deep breaths, hold it a little long exhales. I’ve told him he can punch pillows, but he hasn’t gotten there yet. Yeah, he prefers me. No, but it’s. It’s the breath work does make a big difference, and I’m so glad that, you know, I’ve seen.

Reem Raudha [00:13:29]:

I see him do it, doing it on his own sometimes, which is great. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:13:33]:

I love the idea of pillow punching or throwing together.

Reem Raudha [00:13:37]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:13:37]:

Because then you get to discharge from your nervous system while he does./p>

Reem Raudha [00:13:40]:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:13:41]:

I don’t know what your take is on this, but my daughter’s 10 and, you know, we’ve certainly been on this journey for years and years, but sharing with her in an age appropriate level, my challenges to intersecting with her. Challenges like teaching her. I think I got down this. Got to this place with her where I thought, well, if I just teach her all the tools, then she’ll be resourced and if I hold all the space, she’ll be resourced. Right. If I have all the capacity, she’ll. And then she’ll reach for the things when she needs them. But I think what I saw is that human nature still gets in there.

Dawn Wiggins [00:14:16]:

Right. We still want to default to. I want somebody to fix it for me. And so the older she gets, the more I’ve had to say to her, okay, this is the Moment where you have to choose to use the tool. And I think there’s a big difference between 7 and 10. But, yeah, 7 is really when this top brain just starts to come online from a brain development standpoint. Yeah, yeah. But also holding her accountable for using the tools when she would really rather just melt down and have. your body

Dawn Wiggins [00:14:45]:

Do it for her. So, yeah, I’ve seen that, because I think I told my own self that had I been given the tools as a child, you know, my life would be different. You know, both things maybe, like, I needed the tools, but also, like, anywhere we can, you know, Brene Brown talks about blame is another way we discharge pain. Right. That we really as people we love.

Reem Raudha [00:15:08]:

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. A lot of that going on in this house right now.

Dawn Wiggins [00:15:14]:

In your house, in the world. Like.

Reem Raudha [00:15:16]:

Yeah, I think it’s.

Dawn Wiggins [00:15:17]:

Yeah, that’s the thing.

Reem Raudha [00:15:19]:

All right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:15:19]:

What is something a child might never say out loud? You’ve already alluded to this. Right. But they might never say it or speak it out loud after their parents divorce. But they’ll show us in a thousand other ways. And you’ve already said hurt, but tell us more about that. Right. Like, what will they not say out loud? But their behavior will show it.

Reem Raudha [00:15:36]:

Yes. So definitely, number one is the hurt that it is hurt. It will come off as. A lot of parents will see it as disrespect and rudeness and maliciousness and spoiled, entitled entitlement. And it’s. It’s not that at all. You know, so that’s number one. I also think in the.

Reem Raudha [00:15:57]:

In the divorce arena, maybe they would be afraid to say that they think it’s their fault. That would never come out of their mouth, probably. But they would definitely feel. What’s the word?

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:13]:

Responsibility.

Reem Raudha [00:16:14]:

Yes. Responsible.

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:16]:

Like, I should have done something different.

Reem Raudha [00:16:18]:

Yeah. Or it’s because of me. This is happening because of me. Or he’s mad because of me. And maybe if I had done that. So that. And then just, you know, maybe that they’re not sure who to trust or like, when there’s a loyalty if. Right.

Reem Raudha [00:16:36]:

Big. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:38]:

Who to trust. Because I think each parent assumes that they are the one that knows better.

Reem Raudha [00:16:44]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:44]:

And they’re sending the same message to the. To their kids. Like, no, I’m the one you should trust.

Reem Raudha [00:16:49]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:49]:

Oh, blessed.

So hard. And. And one thing I’ve learned, I’m. Because I’m learning this as I go with the. The divorce. I’m not an expert in divorce at all. That’s not where my expertise leads. But I’M learning that it’s still, it’s still who we are and what we model and what we embody that translates most powerfully than our words ever could.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:22]:

That’s right. How it feels. And, and I think one of the things that I will say to you, it’s the long game right now. Right. Is how it feels one year from now, three years from now, ten years from now. And that consistency over time. Right. You have to trust that in the tight space.

Reem Raudha [00:17:40]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:41]:

It’s so hard.

Reem Raudha [00:17:42]:

It’s so hard. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:45]:

But we ideally want our kids to be able to trust both parents on some level. Right?

Reem Raudha [00:17:50]:

Absolutely. I mean, they have to. That’s their need. That’s a core need. They cannot, they are not meant to choose or lose love or for, for one or the other or be confused or, or mistrust. That’s. That’s creating them to disconnect from theirself themselves.

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:08]:

Yeah.

Reem Raudha [00:18:09]:

So it’s, it’s a serious issue that we have to navigate in this process to, to and to make sure at all costs that that inner, inner conflict is, is not happening. But it does happen in so many homes. So it’s. That one’s a hard one because sometimes there’s no control over the other.

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:35]:

More often than not, there is no control.

Reem Raudha [00:18:37]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:39]:

And then when we try to control it is when we really get stuck ourselves.

Reem Raudha [00:18:42]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:43]:

Because then we don’t feel safe.

Reem Raudha [00:18:44]:

Yes. So a lot of this is, is, is being, you know, hyper aware but letting go at the same time, if that. You know what I mean?

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:55]:

Right.

Reem Raudha [00:18:55]:

But aren’t.

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:55]:

Aren’t most of lives like in life, most of the aligned paths are paradoxical.

Reem Raudha [00:19:01]:

Yeah. Yeah. Because we can be so attuned and so concerned and so worried and do all the right things, but then it can backfire if we also don’t surrender and have faith also in, you know, faith in what I’m providing is enough. My, you know.

Dawn Wiggins [00:19:24]:

Well, yeah. And I, I’ve never read any of your content about this, so like, ooh, we’re getting into a sassy little place here. But I believe that the kid chooses their parents. Right. Spiritually speaking. That like we all come into this life choosing our parents and choosing our timeline and choosing whatever. Right. And we can’t eclipse each person’s own spiritual life journey.

Reem Raudha [00:19:44]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:19:45]:

Like we don’t get to be perfect. Perfect enough mothers.

Reem Raudha [00:19:48]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:19:49]:

That we eclipse their need to have their own hero’s journey.

Reem Raudha [00:19:52]:

That we don’t.

Dawn Wiggins [00:19:53]:

We don’t get to be that arrogant. You know, And I read this research study once where they do the movie Biodome with Pauly Shore. That’s like.

Reem Raudha [00:20:01]:

No, no, I never thought.

Dawn Wiggins [00:20:03]:

But anyways, apologies if you loved that movie with polish. But they, they recreated a concept like that where they built a biodome and they tried to recreate nature within the biodome so that they could see, like, can we sustain all these species, all these, you know, natural earth’s cycles inside the biodome. And so they were able to like, have all these species really thrive, thrive in ways that often they do not in our natural environment where we take advantage of the environment and all the things. But, you know, what happened is the trees ended up falling over really, because they didn’t develop the root structures that come from the wind.

Reem Raudha [00:20:42]:

Oh. Oh, wow. Wow.

Dawn Wiggins [00:20:47]:

Isn’t that something? Wow.

Reem Raudha [00:20:49]:

Yes.

Dawn Wiggins [00:20:50]:

So we need the wind. Our kiddos need the wind. Right. Our kiddos need the wind. And that doesn’t mean that we want to subject them to more than they ideally. But sometimes we have to trust. Like in life, there’s wind and we cannot stop the wind.

Reem Raudha [00:21:03]:

Yes.

Dawn Wiggins [00:21:03]:

Not good for them.

Reem Raudha [00:21:04]:

Oh, wow. I love that. Yeah, it’s true. And there’s a lot of guilt, I know, for many mothers who decide to, to do what’s best for them in terms of their marriage and perhaps giving it up. And I, I’m. I’m very protective, as we all are. And I think taking this step is kind of the biggest way that we can show our children that we also matter and our happiness matters and we have boundaries. And ultimately as.

Reem Raudha [00:21:53]:

Because I know so many of us carry guilt for, you know, what we think we’re inflicting on the child, which there is. We can’t deny that they are going to be inflicted. Right. But that they’re the greatest, their greatest interest. And, and what we ultimately want to give them is much more. And you know, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. So it’s just always. Yes, yes.

Reem Raudha [00:22:20]:

And so I just keep that also too. You know, there’s. There’s something bigger, better, and there’s a reason for the wind right now, basically. Yeah, yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:22:32]:

And we don’t have to do it perfectly. Right. We just have to be accountable. And I think that’s what you’re telling us when you talk about presence.

Reem Raudha [00:22:39]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:22:39]:

Being present within presence, we can be accountable. When we set our egos aside, we can be accountable. Right. We are present. We can be vulnerable and maintain connection and we can co regulate and do all these beautiful things. Right. It’s. We can’t block the wind.

Dawn Wiggins [00:22:54]:

But we can be present and stay connected. And that is where safety truly, I think comes from. Right. Is that sense of safe is connection. Connection.

Reem Raudha [00:23:03]:

Connection. Yeah. It’s such a hard place for a parent to get to naturally. I think that wake up call that, you know, that rock bottom. I sometimes I think that it only can really hit someone through severe grief or, or like a big huge transition or something. Hitting them so hard that you can’t.

Dawn Wiggins [00:23:31]:

Deny it or bypass it or avoid excuse for it or.

Reem Raudha [00:23:34]:

Yes. That your literally shatters and then you see the truth. Then you can awaken, then you see. But it’s very hard to just tell somebody that’s asleep to wake up. You know what I mean? So it’s, it’s really, really hard. But, but if when a parent does start questioning everything, their existence, their childhood, they’re everything, that’s the, the greatest, greatest.

Dawn Wiggins [00:24:07]:

Freedom from the Matrix. Yes. Yeah. I mean that was certainly my journey. Right. Is my ego shattered and there was no denying it. And it was massive grief and I had to reevaluate everything.

Reem Raudha [00:24:18]:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it’s, it’s the biggest blessing in disguise.

Dawn Wiggins [00:24:22]:

Yes.

Reem Raudha [00:24:23]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:24:24]:

Yes.

Reem Raudha [00:24:25]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:24:26]:

Okay. What is a seemingly small parenting moment that actually creates massive long term healing for kids in any transition.

Reem Raudha [00:24:35]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:24:35]:

But especially divorce.

Reem Raudha [00:24:36]:

I think repair is probably number one. And, and then also getting those feelings out.

Dawn Wiggins [00:24:43]:

Yeah.

Reem Raudha [00:24:45]:

Just making sure, you know, I have a ritual with my son before we sleep every night. I say, so tell me how you’re feeling. How is your heart doing? Do you, did you feel angry? Do you feel upset? Like, tell me, tell me, tell. I just need that release because I, I don’t want him to hold on to it and I want him to feel safe with everything, but also just repair. Because there’s. So when there is conflict and chaos and confusion, repair can completely change the story that our children hold. Right. And.

Reem Raudha [00:25:17]:

And it could, it could end the story as well. Yes, but. Right. And, and we don’t. I’m. I mean, I remember all my stories that are still playing in my head from when I was 6 or 7. But if I had, if there was repair, they might not. I might not be thinking about them in my 40s.

Reem Raudha [00:25:37]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:25:37]:

So I love that your answer was repair. I think that’s a magical. So often I tell clients, great, circle back. So often that’s how I deal with when, you know, I freaked out, you know, is I circle back and I say, you know, I’ve been thinking, you know, and this is what I could have done better. I’M sorry for that or whatever it is. Right. You know what’s interesting is I actually got into a fight with my husband a couple weeks ago because I don’t know if you relate to this. I bet you do.

Dawn Wiggins [00:26:02]:

But I have always been willing to set boundaries for her that maybe I wasn’t willing to set for myself or I was willing cycles for her before for me. Right. I’ll just swallow it. I’ll handle it.

Reem Raudha [00:26:11]:

I’ll boost myself.

Dawn Wiggins [00:26:12]:

Right. But I will advocate for her more fiercely. Right. So, yeah, there’s a problem in there also.

Reem Raudha [00:26:22]:

That’s another episode.

Dawn Wiggins [00:26:23]:

And so my daughter and my husband got into a fight the other day, and it was sort of that typical thing that they fight about.

Reem Raudha [00:26:29]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:26:29]:

Or that he and I fight about. And I think we’ve come far enough in our healing journey to know that we are all often circling the same issues.

Reem Raudha [00:26:37]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:26:37]:

But ideally from a higher perspective.

Reem Raudha [00:26:38]:

Higher perspective.

Dawn Wiggins [00:26:39]:

Perspective. Right. Our capacity is increasing. We’re chipping away at it a little bit at a time. So I, like, held it together until he and I were alone as. So as to not to fight in front of her. Right. And I was like, I am so upset about X, Y, or Z.

Dawn Wiggins [00:26:54]:

And he was like, okay. And so he’s gotten really good at repair. He’s like, okay, I’m gonna handle this. I’m handle that. I’m gonna go talk to her. I’m gonna go, whatever. And I’m like, but wait a minute. I actually don’t want you to repair this time.

Reem Raudha [00:27:04]:

And he was like, what? What?

Dawn Wiggins [00:27:08]:

And I said, because how many times in the last year have you gone back to do repair on that thing? But you haven’t actually handled the ego thing that’s coming up for you in that moment? And then do you run the risk of going and doing repair and her no longer receiving repair? You’re not actually doing the behind the scenes.

Reem Raudha [00:27:32]:

Yes.<

Dawn Wiggins [00:27:33]:

To increase your nervous system capacity.

Reem Raudha [00:27:35]:

Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:27:36]:

Right. So it’s like, repair is such a beautiful answer, but also, you better be doing the work behind the scenes.

Reem Raudha [00:27:42]:

Yes. Actually, I. I don’t. I’m using repair, I think more because there’s a lot of chaos going on, you know, during a divorce. And it’s.

Dawn Wiggins [00:27:51]:

I think it’s a great answer. Yeah.

Reem Raudha [00:27:52]:

But. But I. But I have to say that with my clients and in. In my practice and in my. Every day, though, I always tell parents, I’m like, but we don’t want to just know how to, you know, turn off the fire. Like, we need to stop igniting the fire in the first place. Place like we want to. We don’t just want to know how to be amazing at repair.

Reem Raudha [00:28:19]:

We want to. To prevent those situations from happening. Right. As well. So there doesn’t need to be so much repair at the same time. Right. So that’s again, self awareness. What keeps repeating.

Reem Raudha [00:28:31]:

The, the, the patterns that the patterns are, are telltale sign of what’s really going on and what we have to.

Dawn Wiggins [00:28:38]:

Well, and I think that if you had been a fly on the wall, like, you would have said, like, absolutely. His moment of ignition is very much tied to his childhood and what he didn’t get. Right. And then that’s what she’s able to ignite in him. And then from a place of scarcity or like, why didn’t I get this thing? Or why didn’t I feel important or whatever? Right. That’s always where we get ignited in parenthood, is when we. Something we didn’t get in childhood. Is that.

Reem Raudha [00:29:03]:

Yes.

Dawn Wiggins [00:29:03]:

Am I saying yes?

Reem Raudha [00:29:05]:

Always? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:29:08]:

So interesting. So interesting.

Reem Raudha [00:29:09]:

I know.

Dawn Wiggins [00:29:10]:

Okay. What is one piece of parenting advice you’ve actually completely changed your mind about over the years? So something you used to believe about parenting, you’ve changed your mind about it over the years? And why?

Reem Raudha [00:29:23]:

Well, my first two years, my son’s first two years, I was a different parent. I was, you know, the typical behaviorist, you know, and it was compliance and that his behavior was a reflection of my parenting. And that obedience meant I was a good parent and how much control over I had him meant my parenting. And I mean, that’s completely out the window now, now that I know what’s really going on. Absolutely. Now I see behavior as, you know, a symptom of something much deeper. It’s a sign. It’s.

Reem Raudha [00:30:02]:

It’s usually a cry for help. There’s that saying, if we knew, nine times out of 10, if we knew the problem, the issue behind a tantrum, it wouldn’t make us angry, it would make us cry. And, and that’s, you know, so true. And I, and I don’t want to come off like, no. Yes. There’s still boundaries. You still have limits. You can still have rules in your home.

Reem Raudha [00:30:21]:

And I’m not saying, you know, be permissive parent, but I am saying that children deserve our understanding. And they deserve. Yes. And they deserve. We need to reassess our expectations of them and we’re. And start having more clear understanding of where they are developmentally and what they are capable of. Capable of. Because they are fighting because they cannot meet our expectations.

Reem Raudha [00:30:54]:

Right. So that’s, that’s one exercise I always have parents do is like, let’s look at your expectations and are they even. Is the brain realistic?

Dawn Wiggins [00:31:05]:

Yeah, yeah. Is the brain development even capable?

Reem Raudha [00:31:08]:

Does this make sense? And, and I said, you know, I, there’s, there’s things that, yes, your non negotiables around health and safety. Those are mine and toxic things. I’m, you know, I have my non negotiables, but we have, you know, it’s not, it’s not a bad thing, quote unquote, to be more flexible. I think we need to be more flexible. I think we are too rigid with that whole idea of what, you know, our children, how they should be. And that’s just creating a disconnect that.

Dawn Wiggins [00:31:43]:

Well, both ends of the spectrum are true. I think conversely, there are also parents who have been so dysregulated or, or don’t know how to set boundaries or don’t have capacity in the other direction. And there’s, I’ve seen this trend, you know, where it’s like, I’ve raised my kids to be feral kind of thing, where it’s like the opposite end of the spectrum, where there’s no wind around boundaries. Right. And for any type of capacity for self regulation. So I do think both ends of the spectrum are out there.

Reem Raudha [00:32:16]:

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And because at the end of the day, children crave boundaries. They need them to feel safe, safety. Yeah. And Dr. Vanessa Lapointe always says, like, think of them like walking cross, crossing over a little rickety bridge with no handrails. Like the boundaries are the handrails and they expect them.

Reem Raudha [00:32:36]:

Right. And they expect them of us. But I just think, of course, yes, they need them and, but we need to uphold them. Not the child. That’s up to us. We not. That’s not their responsibility to turn off the TV at this certain time. We make sure it’s done.

Reem Raudha [00:32:56]:

You know what I mean? Or we don’t bring ice cream in the house if we’re going to fight about it every day. But at the same time, I’ve seen more of the other side of too heavy handed, too perfectionist oriented. Yeah. And just, just lacking the emotional side of it, like of the. Why just it’s just too much. What, not enough. Why? Right. Like they did this, but no question.

Reem Raudha [00:33:28]:

Why? Why, why do you think they would do that? Why do you think they would say I hate you?

Dawn Wiggins [00:33:32]:

Well, but, you know, curiosity. You bring up an amazing point. Because curiosity Is one of the key indicators that we’re grounded in a sense of capital. Us, Self.

Reem Raudha [00:33:41]:

Yes.

Dawn Wiggins [00:33:41]:

When we can be curious, it means that we’re integrated, we’re not dissociated. We’re present. We’re grounded, we’re. Give or take. Right. Well. And so, yeah, a lack of curiosity absolutely is a. For.

Dawn Wiggins [00:33:55]:

As a parent. Right. I am not grounded.

Reem Raudha [00:33:59]:

Yes. And. And it’s. It’s more of a robotic thing where as we must be curious. That’s. That’s really the answer. Why. Why is it so difficult for them? Or why am I getting so activated by this every day?

Dawn Wiggins [00:34:19]:

I want to ask you the biggest, hairiest question that was not in our interview prep pack. And then you hate the question. We edit this out. Where do you land on vaccines and how they affect. Oh, children’s overall nervous system capacity, behavior, emotional regulation. All. Thanks.

Reem Raudha [00:34:37]:

Well, I’m not, I have to say, I’m not that educated too much, but I did get into it after Covid, of course, and started getting. And I, I’m just, I’m pretty holistic, I have to say, in terms, we.

Dawn Wiggins [00:34:56]:

Are super holistic over here.

Reem Raudha [00:34:57]:

Okay. Okay, good. Like, we. I didn’t get vaccinated for Covid, and we don’t do the flu vaccines. And my son, but my son was, you know, did everything except when I started, when I woke up and realized then I stopped actually, like we were supposed to get the second one, I said, no, it’s okay. And you know, I. Now I’m just more. I’m not, I’m not.

Reem Raudha [00:35:24]:

I was kind of a sheep before and just did everything and I really, you know, and now I’m the opposite. I’m like, no, I’m not. You know, I’m the only one that didn’t do it. And I’m. And I’m thank God I did it. Yeah. Like. Right.

Reem Raudha [00:35:38]:

But. But, you know, in terms of behavior, I, I could. I mean, it’s, It’s. It’s mind and body are so connected.

Dawn Wiggins [00:35:47]:

So connected. You cannot dissociate them.

Reem Raudha [00:35:49]:

Yeah. How can we. How can we say. And I’ve heard too many scary stories that they don’t make me feel comfortable at all. And I, I just think it’s not misinformation. I, I think it’s information.

Dawn Wiggins [00:36:05]:

Information and curiosity is key.

Reem Raudha [00:36:08]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:36:09]:

Yeah.

Reem Raudha [00:36:09]:

Yeah, yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:36:10]:

Well, thank you for rolling with that question. I think I’ve woken up, you know, in air quotes multiple times in my life, and certainly post Covid, I had like, you know, another wake up. Right. And which Is really when I started practicing constitutional homeopathy, which is energy medicine to recover. Right. And I, as I was practicing with my daughter, she had all these food allergies, ocd, anxiety, insomnia, all this stuff. Right?

Reem Raudha [00:36:38]:

Oh really?

Dawn Wiggins [00:36:38]:

As we started unwinding all of that, how much of it was actually tied? Not all of it. Not by any stretch. Stretch all of it. But certainly some of what ended up looking like behavior vaccine related. So. Interesting. Yeah.

Reem Raudha [00:36:54]:

Wow. Yeah, I don’t, I’m not surprised. But yeah, it’s tough. I mean it’s, it’s hard. I, but I also, it’s so hard. I mean I, when I refused the last one, so hard to go. Because then you’re, but then you worry. I’m like, what if I put, I’m putting my child’s life in danger by girl.

Dawn Wiggins [00:37:15]:

Constitutional homeopathy has all the answers. Like can, can prophylax any of the diseases that are out there. Like there is homeoprophylaxis for any and all of them. But yes, I think we need to.

Reem Raudha [00:37:24]:

Talk about that then. Okay.

Dawn Wiggins [00:37:26]:

Yeah. But any time you’re going against what popular culture is saying it does, it feels scary. Like why am I doing this differently? I’m outside of what the tribe.

Reem Raudha [00:37:36]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:37:36]:

And then we feel this mass rejection which are nervous. Like that’s.

Reem Raudha [00:37:42]:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then just one thought of, of actually doing it. Then I’m like, no, absolutely not. You know what I mean? I go back to like, no, this, this makes more sense. And I feel our bodies are designed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:37:59]:

Okay, tell us a little bit about your journals. Right. And your favorite one and where they came from and how they came to be and just give us the rundown. There’s.

Reem Raudha [00:38:08]:

Well, thank you. Well, you know, Bound. Bound was my first and it’s a parent child connection journal for ages 6 to 12. And so it has a question every day for your child, something that opens them up that you know, kind of boosts emotional intelligence and trust between the parent and child and self worth and you know, a lot, a lot of different topics and just open ended questions and then each week has parent reflections for the parent which are pretty profound into the parents, you know, growing and becoming more aware of, of the energy that they are bringing into the room with their child in the relationship. And then Foundations is my most recent and this is an eight week deep healing for parents. Like this is, it’s not for the faint of heart. No. Because you know, I go there, we go there and I go there hard and fast.

Reem Raudha [00:39:08]:

But we answer all the questions and I. We have to, as Dr. Dan Siegel says, we have to connect the dots. We have to make sense of our childhoods. And it’s not a dwelling in your, in your childhood. It’s. It’s a, it’s a healing guide for your parenting. Just how you parent.

Reem Raudha [00:39:29]:

But it touches, of course, on your childhood so that you can make sense of it and just not at all for blame.

Dawn Wiggins [00:39:35]:

This is not at all about blaming anyone. It’s about connecting the dots and breaking cycle. Right.

Reem Raudha [00:39:41]:

Yes.

Dawn Wiggins [00:39:42]:

And we know how to do it. I think that’s so much of how I know I fell into patterns in my first marriage, picking my first partner. In my first marriage, all the things was. I didn’t know any different.

Reem Raudha [00:39:54]:

Yes.

Dawn Wiggins [00:39:55]:

I did what I thought was quote, unquote normal.

Reem Raudha [00:39:58]:

Yes. Yes.

Dawn Wiggins [00:39:59]:

I thought I was making choices that were healthier.

Reem Raudha [00:40:01]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:40:02]:

Because I hadn’t connected the dots in my own body. I was still traumatized, I was still dissociated. Right. I hadn’t done that deep diving. And so.

Reem Raudha [00:40:09]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:40:09]:

Yeah.

Reem Raudha [00:40:10]:

It’s not about. Yeah. The deep dive is literally you’re saving grace. It. Unless. Unless you do this, that inner work and the connecting of the dots and, and looking at the truth without the blame. Because actually it just brings you more compassion for your parents and their story and your, their grandparents and their story. It’s not about blame, but it’s the most transformational tool.

Reem Raudha [00:40:36]:

Like when I help parents with their kids behavior, we go to the inner work because that’s what creates the most change. It’s not about tricks, it’s not about techniques. It’s not about.

Dawn Wiggins [00:40:45]:

No, because if they’re not integrated or embodied. Right. Like you said at the very top of the episode, like, it’s not going to translate. It’s not going to come across as connection. It’s going to come across and controlling.

Reem Raudha [00:40:54]:

Yes. And that’s why I’m against, quote, unquote, gentle parenting. Because I think it’s really an act. Unless you’ve done the inner work. It’s a performance. Sorry to go there at the end. But like you’re just trying to use a softer voice when you’re raging inside.

Dawn Wiggins [00:41:12]:

And your child, that’s just dissociation.

Reem Raudha [00:41:15]:

Yes. And you cannot be gentle when you’re full of unhealed wounds. It doesn’t, it’s not possible. You know, it’s unsustainable. And the number one line I’ve heard from hundreds of parents I’ve worked with is we tried gentle parenting and it didn’t work because it wasn’t authentic.

Dawn Wiggins [00:41:32]:

There wasn’t connection. Yeah. Which means there’s a breach, there’s a rupture, an attachment.

Reem Raudha [00:41:36]:

There wasn’t connection in the parent to themselves.

Dawn Wiggins [00:41:40]:

Yes. And then how can there be sustained connection between the parent and the child?

Reem Raudha [00:41:44]:

Yes.

Dawn Wiggins [00:41:44]:

You can have maybe a little more connection, but not sustainably.

Reem Raudha [00:41:48]:

Yeah, yeah. So the number one most important job of any parent is to heal. Yeah, yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:41:55]:

Yes, I know. Like, I would do anything for my child. Well, would you? So I love the reason. I think I just got so excited about Bound. Even your first work and not the second one. I think it’s because when parents, especially women, are going through divorce and they’re in the thick of it. Right. It’s like I don’t have enough capacity to.

Dawn Wiggins [00:42:16]:

I’m not fully recovered from all these things. Right. I haven’t completed my deep dive. I’m not grounded. And so bound is such a. Like, here’s the curious question for you. It’s already written for you. It’s like, I don’t have the level of grounding that I’d like to have a year or two or five years from now.

Dawn Wiggins [00:42:32]:

Right. And so bound is just sort of on a platter. Like, here it is. Here. It’s. Here’s how to talk to your child. Here’s how to ask the questions.

Reem Raudha [00:42:39]:

Yeah. Here’s the questions to ask, conversations to have.

Dawn Wiggins [00:42:42]:

Yeah. Now. Yeah.

Reem Raudha [00:42:43]:

Yes.

Dawn Wiggins [00:42:44]:

You don’t know what to say. I think as a marriage and family therapist with a divorce podcast. Right. Because so many people coming to marriage counseling, they waited too long. They didn’t do the work, they didn’t do the things, you know, and so. So many people mess up that moment of telling their kids how they’re, you know, that they’re getting a divorce or whatever. Like, I mess up. Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:43:06]:

But it’s just not well executed.

Reem Raudha [00:43:08]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:43:09]:

And so it is what it is. Bygones. Let’s move on. Right. And I think does such a beautiful job of creating that sort of structure. Here’s the roadmap for these conversations during this season of life. So I just thought it was really suited for women in this stage or this.

Reem Raudha [00:43:25]:

Thank you. Yes, I could. It’s helpful. Right? It’s very. Kind of like, takes the weight off and just gives you what you need to do.

Dawn Wiggins [00:43:33]:

It’s not already automatic, you know?

Reem Raudha [00:43:35]:

Yeah. Yeah. A lot of our talk with our children is small talk. How is your day? That’s. That’s small talk.

Dawn Wiggins [00:43:43]:

That question.

Reem Raudha [00:43:44]:

Yeah. And they never end. Okay. Good. You know, so I wanted to give questions that actually mean something and open them up and make them want to answer and make them feel closer and make them feel trusted and make them feel empowered and important, you know? Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:44:02]:

What else would you add that maybe I didn’t think to bring up or that, you know, is super relevant for these major life transitions, maybe especially divorce. And if there’s nothing. If we covered it, like, great. I think we’ve done like, we’ve covered some cool stuff today.

Reem Raudha [00:44:19]:

Just that our. Our own. Managing our own emotions is the focus. As much as things can get chaotic within our children, it’s. And, and we can put it on them or just focus and dissect on what they’re doing and how they’re behaving.

Dawn Wiggins [00:44:37]:

Have to deal with our own.

Reem Raudha [00:44:39]:

Yeah. And it’s like you need to be dissecting yourself. That’s who you should be dissecting. And you should just be focusing on your behavior the most and become, you know, become a witness to yourself. That’s right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:44:55]:

Because regulating our emotions doesn’t mean suppressing or bypassing or just containing emotion. Right. It’s about witnessing and then getting curious.

Reem Raudha [00:45:06]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:45:07]:

What is this that I’m feeling? Why am I feeling it? What am I going to do with these feelings? Right. Am I going to push them down or am I going to find some healthy way to get them out?

Reem Raudha [00:45:13]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:45:14]:

And then make that such a habit. Right.

Reem Raudha [00:45:17]:

Yeah. And I think and, and learning to sit with them as well, you know, like, do you have to call someone right away and talk to them about it? Or can you just sit and, and sit in it? You don’t feel it, and can you. And then that will open your eyes to, can you let your child do the same? You know, when I see my son sad, who he has been sad lately, can I get comfortable with my discomfort of his discomfort, you know, and, and allow it? And, you know, that’s the big thing too, is. Is just allowing those feelings. It’s just.

Dawn Wiggins [00:45:57]:

I think I learned that truly for the first time ever when I was going through divorce, because I would phone a friend, right. If I was triggered or whatever, I would phone a friend, some person on my support system. And then those moments where nobody answered, it was like, well.

Reem Raudha [00:46:14]:

Now what?

Dawn Wiggins [00:46:14]:

Right. And then, yeah, you gotta find a way to deal with that. And I really do think that that was integral to my transformation while I was getting divorced early on. I think so many people, when they see their kids have painful emotion, like a. It taps into our unprocessed painful emotion. So we want to stop it, like, right.

Reem Raudha [00:46:32]:

Right away.

Dawn Wiggins [00:46:33]:

But then there are so many of us that want to break the cycle that we’ve sort of erroneously fallen into the. This. Like, I have to solve that for them so that they don’t feel pain rather than, like, no, actually, I have to teach them how to deal with the wind. Right. And I think we have traded resilience for, like, pacification. Right. Like, I want to take them somewhere. I want to distract them.

Dawn Wiggins [00:46:56]:

I want to entertain them. I want to buy them something, because if they’re happy, I’m happy. And that is the definition of codependency.

Reem Raudha [00:47:02]:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And. Yeah. And, you know, tears are healing so healthy.

Dawn Wiggins [00:47:10]:

They detox the liver. Yes. Like, they’re.

Reem Raudha [00:47:13]:

And these. And. And we’ve been told to literally say, stop crying and stop their healing. You know, they are releasing the cortisol and the stress and. And let them. Let them. Let them feel sad. You know, it’s causing.

Reem Raudha [00:47:31]:

You know, it’s causing disease if we don’t let. Let it out. Right. That’s right. It’s healthy first for them to feel it. It’s a part of life. But also, we feel so much guilt and responsibility as parents and mothers especially. But we have, like, that’s the surrendering part where we have to say, you know, yes, they chose us.

Reem Raudha [00:47:52]:

This is a part of their story. This is. I can’t take their pain away. That’s not my job. It’s just.

Dawn Wiggins [00:48:00]:

It’s me.

It’s my job to support them through it and stay here and hold them through it, but not take it away, you know, and that’s the best gift you can give them, actually.

Dawn Wiggins [00:48:10]:

Yep.

Reem Raudha [00:48:10]:

Right?

Dawn Wiggins [00:48:11]:

Love it.

Reem Raudha [00:48:12]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:48:12]:

Dream. I am literally a fan girl. I just admire your courage. You say the hard things, you do the hard things. Right, like being at the party or the cookout or whatever and. And doing it differently. I know. You know, let’s say, like, when we started doing homeopathy and nobody else around was doing it, and it’s like, what is happening, you know, like, do it very differently than what your community is doing.

Dawn Wiggins [00:48:35]:

Takes an abundance of courage and.

Reem Raudha [00:48:38]:

Oh, yeah, I’m proud of you. Oh, thank you.

Dawn Wiggins [00:48:40]:

Grateful for you. There are plenty of times I repost your stories because things that people need to hear. And we’ll definitely put your Instagram here handle in the show notes along with your two journals.

Reem Raudha [00:48:51]:

Thank you so much.

Dawn Wiggins [00:48:52]:

We can have you back one day.

Reem Raudha [00:48:54]:

Yes, of course. I would love to. You’re. You’re so sweet.

Dawn Wiggins [00:48:58]:

All right, you can check out Reem in the show notes, and if there’s something you would especially like to hear her talk about, send me a DM and we will have her back. And we will ask her whatever it is. You’re in the trenches, parenting through divorce. Curiosities are.