Emotional Numbing: What It Really Means (And Why Willpower Isn’t the Fix)

5 Key Takeaways

1. Emotional numbness is a protective feature, not a personal failure. Dissociation is an elegant, built-in coping mechanism designed to let you experience difficult emotions without being dragged under by them.
2. The behaviors you’re trying to fix are usually just the symptom. Overeating, doomscrolling, brain fog, forgetfulness, and headaches aren’t the actual problem — they’re what’s covering something happening underneath.
3. Numbness hides inside high-functioning routines. This isn’t the dramatic, cinematic version of checking out. It’s the everyday kind that disguises itself as productivity — staying busy, staying “fine” or on autopilot. This is exactly why it’s so easy to miss for years.
4. You can spot emotional numbing by noticing what you reach for without thinking. If you find yourself reaching for a behavior — unhealthy food, scrolling your phone, a show — without consciously deciding to, pause and ask what you might be trying to avoid feeling in that moment.
5. Healing modalities can’t work if you’re not present for them. When EMDR, talk therapy, or EFT tapping “doesn’t work” for someone, unresolved emotional numbness is very often the reason — you can’t process what you’re not actually present for.

Frequently Asked Questions

What causes emotional numbness?

Emotional numbness, or emotional numbing, is caused by an emotional workload that’s become too heavy to stay fully present for, and it’s very common for women during and after divorce. Divorce changes how much of reality a person is willing or able to stay present with; as the emotional load goes up, awareness of the bigger picture narrows so the person can keep functioning day to day. With an Internal Family Systems (IFS) lens, numbness shows up when a “firefighter” part of you steps in, because the emotions in a given moment feel too big for the system to handle safely, so it shuts things down to protect you. Chronic fatigue, exhaustion, and burnout as major (and often overlooked) drivers of emotional numbness — when being in your body feels bad enough for long enough, checking out becomes the path of least resistance.

How long does emotional numbness last?

How long numbness lasts depends heavily on ongoing exposure to stress and triggers. During active divorce litigation — when someone is still facing court dates, co-parenting logistics, or regular contact with an ex — there tends to be significantly more dissociation happening, simply because the triggers are constant. Numbness tends to ease as the acute stressors resolve and as a person does the deeper work of learning to stay present with difficult feelings, rather than automatically checking out from them. Thawing out chronic numbness and helping the nervous system feel safe enough to stay present is a gradual process, not a quick fix.

Can emotional numbness be permanent?

No, emotional numbness, or emotional numbing, doesn’t have to be permanent. It is a pattern that can become deeply ingrained through repetition, but emotional numbness isn’t permanent or fixed. When you heal, the emotional numbness loosens as safety, nervous system regulation, and the ability to stay present are rebuilt over time.

How do I identify signs of emotional detachment?

Signs of emotional detachment include:

• Reaching for something to “check out” without deciding to. Food, your phone, TV, or another habitual behavior you turn to on autopilot, not out of genuine enjoyment or choice.
• Losing time. Not remembering how you got from one point to another or realizing half a bag of chips is gone in minutes.
• Conversations that loop. When a conversation with someone (or your own internal conversation) keeps circling without resolution.
• Physical cues like humming or fidgeting. A nervous-system-soothing behavior that shows up when someone is trying not to feel something difficult in the moment.
• Brain fog, forgetfulness, or feeling “wrinkled” time. Sensations like time slowing down or feeling like you’re walking through water are markers of dissociation.
• Chronic anger, resentment, or low motivation that never resolves. The episode notes that emotions like anger and resentment aren’t meant to be chronic — when they persist indefinitely, it’s often a sign that emotional processing is being blocked by numbing rather than actually happening.

How can I recover from emotional numbness?

You can recover from emotional numbness by starting to notice it happening in real time. From there you can:

• Build a personal list of your “reach for” behaviors — the specific things you turn to on autopilot — so you can recognize the pattern faster when it starts.
• Pause and ask what you’re avoiding. When you notice yourself reaching for a numbing behavior, stop and check in: “Am I actually hungry, actually interested, actually choosing this? Or am I trying not to feel something?”
• Create intentional cues of safety for your nervous system. Turning on lamps, lighting candles, taking warm baths, and creating a “cozy,” warm environment in the evenings can signal safety in your body.
• Use grounding tools that work for high levels of numbing. Grounding techniques (like the “5 senses” method) don’t work for everyone but can be a good start. A professional therapist will be able to support you on a deeper level.
• Address underlying burnout and fatigue. Chronic exhaustion is a major driver of numbing, recovering rest and capacity — not just working on “the emotions” directly — is part of the process.
• Seek out grounding, embodied experiences. Physical, present-moment experiences can interrupt the numbing pattern, like live music or concerts.

Highlights

• 00:00 “Unlocking Healing After Divorce”
• 03:51 “Small Wins, Big Healing”
• 08:21 “Understanding Dissociation and Healing”
• 11:29 Understanding Dissociation and Brain Fog
• 13:07 “Liver Stagnation and Brain Fog”
• 16:16 “Healing Dissociation Post-Litigation”
• 19:59 “Triggered Firefighter States Explained”
• 25:57 Mindful Choices for Personal Growth
• 28:55 “Balancing Roles and Energy”
• 30:47 “Chronic Compartmentalization Effects”
• 35:42 “Embracing Healing and Intentional Living”
• 38:50 “Embracing Assertiveness as a Parent”
• 40:16 “Focus on the Good”

Full Transcript

Dawn Wiggins [00:00:04]: If you’re in divorce recovery and you keep reaching for food screens or emotional numbness to cope with your ex, your loneliness, your bank account, you’ve probably decided the issue is discipline or something like that. And sure, discipline matters. But here’s what most women miss. Women in our programs miss. Those behaviors are not the cause of the problem and neither are the triggers. They’re covering it. And there’s something happening before you overeat, before you doom scroll, before you go emotionally flat. And if you don’t see that part, the thing that happens before, you’re going to keep trying to fix the surface and wondering why your healing stalls. Dawn Wiggins [00:00:49]: Today, we’re going to show you what’s actually running underneath your patterns and how to recognize it in real time and how small, precise shifts can unlock movement. Again, this is an episode you do not want to miss. Hi, love. Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary, the podcast helping divorcees go beyond talk therapy to process your grief, find the healing you crave, and build back your confidence. I’m your host, Dawn Wiggins, a therapist, coach, integrative healer, and your say join me for a fresh approach to healing grief and building your confidence after divorce. Okay, Today’s episode is about what you’re actually dealing with that no one told you about. You may have heard it on the tiki talky or on the Instagram, but like, we’re gonna dig into how it applies to you in this divorce situation, because divorce doesn’t just break up your relationship. It changes how much of reality you’re willing or able to stay present with. Dawn Wiggins [00:02:00]: Let me say that again, divorce has changed how much of your reality you are willing or able to stay present with. And when your emotional workload goes high, your awareness of what’s going on in the big picture goes small or narrows. So you keep functioning, but you stop fully noticing what’s going on in the plot big picture. And the issue is that that state of being high functioning, high emotional workload, narrow awareness, doesn’t feel dramatic, it feels normal. It’s just how you’re moving about life right now and that’s why it’s so dangerous. This is disassociation, not the movie version where you turn into the black swan or whatever, the everyday kind that hides in your productivity and your coping. And as long as this state is running, your growth and your recovery stays theoretical and not actual. So we’re going to unpack that today and we could not be more excited to do so. Dawn Wiggins [00:03:07]: And then after we talk about what dissociation is, we are going to Talk about how to spot it before it wastes another year of your efforts. And I am not being dramatic here. Like, if there were something we wanted women to know and something we tackle first in our programs, it’s this. You don’t need more insight. You need the ability to detect it when it’s happening. So later on in the episode, we are going to talk about overeating, screen time, headaches, brain fog time, feeling weird, forgetfulness, emotional numbing. Because here’s the deal. Love disassociation works by keeping you busy enough to not notice what matters and you can’t change what you are not present for. Dawn Wiggins [00:03:51]: At the end of the episode, we are going to get into our small wins, big shifts segment where we have three listener submitted wins and shifts to read to you. We are loving this part. These are three moments of relief, clarity, or softness that didn’t exist before. So come here. What happens when you stop managing your healing and start experiencing it? If you’re not sending us your wins, you’re not fully engaged in your healing. Because focusing on your wins, playing them up, milking them for all they’re worth, means, A, sending them to us, but B, it means tipping up on the vibrational scale. It means turning your thoughts into things, your manifestations into things. It means really moving forward in your healing journey. Dawn Wiggins [00:04:34]: So send us your wins and we will feature you. Ladies, welcome. How was your weekend? Producer Joy [00:04:41]: Tiffany, do you wanna go first? Coach Tiffini [00:04:43]: Yeah. Yeah. I’m super stoked about mine. So I actually had an amazing, like, one of those delicious days with my daughter on Saturday where we hit up like a new brunch spot for us. And the chef was actually on one of the seasons of Hell’s Kitchen. And so we had these beautiful waffles that were presented to us with these edible flowers. It was very bougie, but it was a lot of fun. And then her favorite Harry Potter movie is the Goblet of Fire. Coach Tiffini [00:05:09]: And so our local symphony was performing it. And so, yeah, so you watch the entire movie, but they take the music out and the symphony plays all the music, and it was incredible. And they encouraged you to clap when you wanted to clap and boo when you wanted to boo and, you know, like, so it was. Oh, my God. We had a very engaging audience. It was such a blast. Dawn Wiggins [00:05:30]: So fun. Producer Joy [00:05:32]: I love that so much. That is something that, that I would have really, really enjoyed. I bet it was beautiful. I had the direct opposite. That’s why I had you go first, because with my daughter, because, you know, like, hard, hard conversations. Hard. You know, she’s 13, and she’s trying to figure out who she wants to be and who, you know, all of the hormones that go with it. So she was on her period and had some very big changes happen in. Producer Joy [00:06:04]: And, you know, as the parenting, we made some big decisions for her against her will this week. And so it did not. It did not go well, but I’m super. It’s so kismet that this episode is following this weekend, because I’ll talk later on in the episode on specifically how I dissociated and how I watched her dissociate, which is kind of going to blow Dawn’s mind because of. It’s really kind of cool, so. Or how I noticed it, not how she did it. But anyway, go ahead. So, anyway, it was just. Producer Joy [00:06:41]: Yeah. Yeah. Dawn Wiggins [00:06:42]: I love that you called that, because our kids disassociate, too, right? Producer Joy [00:06:46]: And. Dawn Wiggins [00:06:47]: Yeah. And when you can catch that, right, that’s when I’ll sit with my kid and I’ll be like, okay, what are you trying not to feel right now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Producer Joy [00:06:55]: Yep. Dawn Wiggins [00:06:56]: And then that’s like, parenting wins right there. Coach Tiffini [00:06:59]: Dawn, how was your weekend? Dawn Wiggins [00:07:01]: It was good. It was quiet. It was simple. I. We also did a nice brunch. I had a mimosa with the lavender. Have y’ all ever heard me talk about the lavender lemonade mimosa blend? At one of our local brunch spots? And then we had. It was like. Dawn Wiggins [00:07:19]: We had weird weather. It’s like the middle of January, and it almost hit the 80s, which, for Florida girl is a big deal. So we went hiking, and we had a little friend with us. And it was like, you know, they were in nature without, you know, I don’t know, control. And you could tell they thought they were probably gonna die. They did not. Eventually, they figured out the forest was their friend. And I have y’, all. Dawn Wiggins [00:07:47]: I don’t know. We were walking in a forest that had these massive pine cones, and. And I was like, we should build a house with these. And so it was like nature’s Legos, like, sticking them together. I only drew blood once, but, like, I’m convinced that with proper pinecone selection, if you had to build a pine cone house, it could be done. Coach Tiffini [00:08:05]: Sounds like a lot of fun. It’s like. It totally fits my ferries in the forest. Absolutely right. Producer Joy [00:08:10]: Absolutely. Coach Tiffini [00:08:10]: I love all that. Producer Joy [00:08:12]: Yeah. Dawn Wiggins [00:08:13]: Okay, ladies, we are Dissociation Queens. So first things first, right? We’re gonna talk about that on Thursday. Coach Tiffini [00:08:20]: Thursday. Dawn Wiggins [00:08:21]: Premium episod room where the healing happens. We are going to do a behind the mic episode where we talk about our specific experiences with disassociation and specifically the tools we use to move through it. Right. But we talk a lot in our programs with our clients, amongst ourselves and our families. Like the thing that holds women back, that they do not realize, do not realize, do not realize is disassociation. And it’s because the design of disassociation, it’s so elegant how it happens in the body mind. And I truly believe God designed us to have this feature built in. It’s a standard feature and it’s to allow us to cope with trauma. Dawn Wiggins [00:08:57]: Right. Without it dragging us under. It’s, it’s, it’s designed to allow us to experience traumas and to still function. Right. But when we keep doing it, then our healing efforts often don’t stick because we’re doing them from a not integrated place. We’re doing them from a dissociated, numbed out, or surface level place. And we’re not getting to the feelings part and we can’t think ourselves well. Producer Joy [00:09:25]: Right. Dawn Wiggins [00:09:25]: Thank you. Bessel van der Kolk. The Body Keeps the Score. You know, a favorite book of ours to mention. And so until we learn how to feel what we need to heal, you know, very often the healing doesn’t stick. So what we’re actually dealing with is disassociation. And it can be tricky, tricky, tricky to spot, but it is the way our mind distances ourselves from the pain we’re feeling. Now I would like to add here that I am a woman who has had chronic disease for many, many, many years that involved pain. Dawn Wiggins [00:09:55]: And so the amount of distancing I had to do from my own body to cope with the pain. And P.S. the, the headaches were really disassociation and then I was disassociating from disassociation. Can we just take a moment to be like what. Coach Tiffini [00:10:11]: You were in stealth mode. Producer Joy [00:10:12]: Right. Dawn Wiggins [00:10:13]: The headaches were how I was trying to distance from the emotions I was feeling. Right. That the headaches. And then, and then I had to distance from the headaches. So it’s like, how was I even on planet Earth? Like barely. Right. And so there are many, many forms that disassociation can take on, which can make it very difficult to treat. Right. Dawn Wiggins [00:10:34]: But let’s talk about, let’s just really talk about how sneaky it is and how much it blocks healing. What we’ve seen with the women we work with, what we’ve seen in our programs, why it’s such an important thing to tackle how people who come to me saying, EMDR didn’t work for me. If EMDR didn’t work for you, it’s because disassociation. Right. Like, it’s just everywhere. And the point of it is to keep you out of the loop. Coach Tiffini [00:11:03]: Right. Dawn Wiggins [00:11:05]: That’s what makes it so tricky to treat. And I think it’s one of the things we do better, I’m gonna say, than everyone else. That’s probably dramatic and not completely true, but it’s something we do very, very well in our programs. I know Joy is like, might be true. We could be. Producer Joy [00:11:21]: I don’t think we’re off. Yeah. Coach Tiffini [00:11:24]: Yeah. Dawn Wiggins [00:11:25]: All right. I’ve talked long enough. Interrupt me. Coach Tiffini [00:11:29]: This is one of my favorite topics because I live for so many years in this way that I just thought that it was normal. So the brain fog, you know, when I was younger, it’s like I would describe it as. There were these moments where I felt like I was watching my life as if it were a movie and I was not a character in my own play. Right. So that’s how I kind of start describing it to people. And I have so many women say, but how do I know when I’m dissociating? So I’m saying, like, when you’re reaching for anything out of routine or to numb without being conscious of it. Producer Joy [00:12:04]: Correct. Coach Tiffini [00:12:05]: That is kind of an indicator that you are so reaching for the bag of chips, reaching for the 50th cup of coffee, reaching for, you know, whatever it is that you’re using to check out autopilot. Producer Joy [00:12:16]: Yeah. Coach Tiffini [00:12:16]: And let me tell you, there’s a disgusting feature on your phone that tells you how many times you pick up your phone during the day and wipe up. Say it on loud. So any sort of behaviors that you feel like you are doing to. To where you are looking down. And it’s almost like it’s the feeling of driving a car and not knowing how you got from A to B. Yeah. Dawn Wiggins [00:12:38]: Not remembering that. Coach Tiffini [00:12:39]: Is that. Dawn Wiggins [00:12:40]: Is that’s it? Yes. Coach Tiffini [00:12:42]: It’s like that muscle memory where you look down and you’re like, how did I get here? It’s like, how did half of the bag of chips disappear in nine minutes? Like, that’s what’s happening. Dawn Wiggins [00:12:50]: So, you know, I do not want to villainize disassociation. I want to emphasize it is an elegant mfing tool. I am obsessed with it. It serves a purpose. We are not here to tell you to never do it again. We are here to tell you you’re doing it more than you realize. And it’s what’s blocking your healing. Right. Dawn Wiggins [00:13:07]: I feel like there are some really weird ones, like, time wrinkling. I remember, like, time wrinkling. Does that sound so bizarre, but, like, feeling like I’m walking through water or like time is slowing, like, these are all dissociative functions or, like, losing time or being forgetful or, like, brain fog can be very much liver stagnation or disassociation. It’s usually one or the two. Right. Because there’s so many women I know who are listening to us right now who are in perimenopause or menopause, and they’ve had hot flashes and brain fog. And a lot of that is liver stagnation, truly, because the liver has to metabolize our hormones, and when our hormones are leaving the building, all these things are happening metabolically. But do you know if your brain fog is from liver or from disassociation or both? So let’s talk about some of our. Dawn Wiggins [00:13:58]: The women we work with and their journeys with this. Right. Like, it’s profound. How much once we start to move through disassociation, how quickly they have really profound shifts in internal family systems or with eft tapping. Right. How many times have people done eft tapping and been like, I don’t know. Nothing happened. Producer Joy [00:14:23]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dawn Wiggins [00:14:23]: Like, I didn’t get anything right. But it’s because we’re not grounded in our bodies. We’re not in our conscious. Like, we’re not grounded in our consciousness. We’re, like, compartmentalized. That’s another word people use a lot that they don’t realize actually means or equates disassociation. Oh, I just compartmentalize. That’s. Dawn Wiggins [00:14:40]: That’s when we compartmentalize chronically. What that means is you have a tendency to disassociate. Do you think we’ve adequately explained what dissociation is? Or the function it serves? Helps us distance from the emotional content, the unwanted content we’ve experienced in life, the painful experiences. It helps us mentally and emotionally distance from our awareness or our felt experience of that pain. Coach Tiffini [00:15:06]: Well, from an IFS perspective, it’s a firefighter part. Okay. So when you’re starting to dissociate, it means that the emotions that you’re feeling in the moment are way too big, and the system is shutting down to protect. And so, again, like dawn said, it’s a beautiful thing that your body does. Right. And your mind is able to kind of shut off when it feels too intense. But when you’re trying to heal from things, it also can be a big block and a big obstacle to overcome. So, again, yeah, when I. Coach Tiffini [00:15:32]: When I have people that come to me and say, well, I’ve been in therapy 20 years and nothing worked, I kind of giggle because it’s like, yeah, you know why? Dawn Wiggins [00:15:38]: Yeah, yeah. And this is a really good point, because this is why we designed our program to be a year long. Because when you are actively in divorce, and we’ve had many women through multiple cohorts, right? Like, there are women who are still mid litigation, and then there are women who are post litigation. Right. Like, where the legal element is close. And when you’re in the midst of litigation, there’s far more disassociation happening. Right. Because there’s constant triggers. Dawn Wiggins [00:16:06]: Constant triggers when you’re still having to actively. Because you have to go to court from time to time. Right, right, right. It’s the interfacing with your ex. Producer Joy [00:16:16]: Right. Dawn Wiggins [00:16:16]: Or if you’re still living with your ex or whatever. Right. Like, so there’s. During litigation, what we’re really helping women do is, like, manage their disassociation, do as little as possible, but there is still much needed. Right. And so then there are different interventions we use post litigation in our programs. But this is why our biggest, most beautiful program is a year long, because we have to thaw the amount of disassociation you’ve been using. We have to nourish your nervous system so it feels safe to thaw the dissociative process and then treat right? So it’s like, holy cow. Dawn Wiggins [00:16:50]: This is really a complex process, and it requires complex strategies. And that’s why our program was designed the way that it is, because women don’t realize that this is all going on. And then it’s sneaky. It’s really, really sneaky. Right. Disassociation is really sneaky. Coach Tiffini [00:17:09]: I thought it was just how I was. Yeah, I thought that’s how I was. And I. I would always just get this feeling that I was experiencing things. But again, I was never fully present in the moment. And I remember, like, one of the tools. And we’ll talk more about them on Thursday. But one of the ones that never worked for me is pick five things. Coach Tiffini [00:17:26]: You know, a sense, smell, taste, like, try to get yourself present in the moment. That never worked for me. Like, I was literally so checked out for so many years that I was just like, this is doing nothing. So that was a tool that some people can use, which is great. But, you know, then there’s like, Deeper tools that people can use and that for somebody that’s used to just living their life day by day, like, you need harder tools. You need definitely stronger ones that can help. Dawn Wiggins [00:17:52]: Stronger. Coach Tiffini [00:17:52]: Yeah. Dawn Wiggins [00:17:53]: Yeah. Coach Tiffini [00:17:54]: I think that’s my women that. Go ahead, Joy. Producer Joy [00:17:57]: No, I was, I was gonna. Kind of. One of my things is I don’t even realize I’m doing it. Like, a lot of the times I don’t recognize it before because the firefighter part of me is still very active. I haven’t closed that loop. I haven’t embraced it. I haven’t witnessed it as much as I need to, to be able to move. Dawn Wiggins [00:18:18]: Beautifully said. Coach Tiffini [00:18:19]: Beautifully said. Dawn Wiggins [00:18:20]: Yeah. Producer Joy [00:18:21]: So I do feel like there are so many times I disassociate that I don’t even realize I’m doing it. And it’s that work to recognize and adjust, because I do. Don said it earlier in the episode where it is a beautiful tool. God created our bodies to be able to just see it. Sometimes you do have to compartmentalize, especially like in the healthcare field, the first responders. You have to be able to, like, you know, pinky blinders. You have to be able to. To zone in and only handle this situation and then. Producer Joy [00:18:54]: But like circling back and addressing it and closing that and discharging those emotions that came with that experience. That is where the magic is. That is my current session, season of work that I’m doing on myself is understanding why I overeat, why I, you know, doom scroll or checkout or whatever the term you want to. It’s dissociation, Whatever term resonates with you, um, is how it, how you. Dawn Wiggins [00:19:26]: So let’s contextualize that just a little bit more here on Tuesday. Right. Thursday, we’re gonna like show under our skirts, if you will. Producer Joy [00:19:32]: Yeah, yeah. Dawn Wiggins [00:19:34]: There are things that just belong behind a paywall. So. But because I remember, like one of the women we work with said recently, oh, when I heard dawn, she still struggles with X, Y, Z, it made me think like, all is lost. Producer Joy [00:19:52]: We’re human. Coach Tiffini [00:19:52]: Right. Producer Joy [00:19:53]: So, so, and healing isn’t linear. It’s not like a one stop shop and check that box and I’m done. I get to move on. Dawn Wiggins [00:19:59]: Yeah. So when you say, like, there’s a firefighter that hasn’t been witnessed, that doesn’t mean you’re running around in a chronic firefighter state. Right. There are things or moments in your life that trigger it. Like, I had to hang out with mom more often this holiday season. Or my kid was really having a very, very hard Time. And we all know that phrase, like, mama is only as happy as our least happy child, right? So there are moments in life that may cause us to. To move into firefighter states, and it happens less and less and less than it ever did. Dawn Wiggins [00:20:27]: But you can still see a sliver of life where it’s showing up and it’s blocking you from reaching your goals. So that’s why we want to move it out of the way. Okay, so, darlings, we’ve explained disassociation. We’re going to really dig into, like, how to spot it, like, how to detect it. But is there anything else that we need to say about. Producer Joy [00:20:50]: No. Dawn Wiggins [00:20:51]: This is what you’re dealing with. Like, this. Love is the reason your manifestation goals are not being met. This is the reason your cycles keep repeating. This is the reason your triggers still feel like you can’t, I don’t know, manage them or get a handle on them or break the cycle. Like, this is the thing. Coach Tiffini [00:21:13]: Dissociation is the. The number one reason why you are staying stuck in a cycle. This is it. It’s everything. Dawn Wiggins [00:21:21]: It’s everything. Producer Joy [00:21:23]: I really loved what you said earlier, dawn, about the discipline aspect. Like, it’s not. It’s not necessarily a discipline issue. It’s give yourself grace, give yourself love yourself enough to know that it’s not as a black and white issue as your discipline. It’s. It’s bigger than that and it’s deeper than that. So knowing yourself better is only going to help you love yourself more. Dawn Wiggins [00:21:51]: Love that it’s not. It’s not a discipline. There’s a. There’s always a reason. Every human behavior has an explanation. And I would even argue, you know how many of the women we talk to and listen, like, talk about how, like, their ex moved on so quickly or they’re there, they’re just living their best life. They’re just happy. Like, no, they’re profoundly disassociated. Dawn Wiggins [00:22:16]: Right? And that’s what disassociation allows you to do. It allows you to lack empathy because you’re not connected to what you’re feeling or to your human experience or the other human experience. Coach Tiffini [00:22:25]: Right? Dawn Wiggins [00:22:25]: You can know intellectually or logically. And I think women are deeply intuitive and we do know things, right? But when you are distancing yourself from your painful feelings, you are distancing yourself from being able to have empathy that goes beyond an intellectual understanding. Like, I think sometimes women stand. I’m going to get. I’m going to get canceled for. Not literally canceled. Like, I’m going To get rotten tomatoes thrown at me for this. But I think women, sometimes we’re good dot connectors, right? But we are so disassociated women, right? Producer Joy [00:22:56]: Which. Dawn Wiggins [00:22:57]: Which really dilutes our power. It dilutes our empowerment, our fire, our ability to move the needle in our lives, our children’s lives, our community’s lives. We are so numbed out as women, right? And then we get. We call narcissism all over the place. But when you are in a chronically disassociated state, and we know many women are. Because this is what we do all day, right? We are connecting dots and we’re calling out patterns, but we don’t realize we’re living in them as well. And we can’t move the needle in the way we say we want to in our lives and our children’s lives and our community’s lives if we can’t sit with what we’re feeling and process it. Anger is not supposed to be chronic. Dawn Wiggins [00:23:44]: Resentment is not supposed to be chronic. And I don’t care in what domain that’s in, if it’s with your ex or a different political party or you name it. Like, if you are experiencing chronic resentment, rage, anger, chronic low motivation, we’re sort of now getting into the next thing. Like, how do you know, like, there is disassociation happening that’s blocking you from processing what is keeping these things in a state of chronicity. So before you decide to turn this episode off because of me, you mad? Let’s. Let’s talk about how to spot it, right? The thing that happens before, the thing you can’t change what you’re not present for. So how do we help women spot that this is happening? You know, when you have a conversation with somebody and it gets stuck, like, there’s no conflict. Looping. Dawn Wiggins [00:24:38]: Yeah, Looping, right? When conversations are looping, when you’re looping or the person you’re talking to is looping, that’s disassociation. That right there, right? I want you to understand this as much about yourself as the world around you. I want you to start realizing how many people you’re talking to in your life are disassociated. Let’s also discuss how to pronounce the word. Is it disassociated or dissociated? Anyways, I digress. Coach Tiffini [00:25:04]: You’re good. Producer Joy [00:25:05]: You’re good. Coach Tiffini [00:25:05]: So, okay, so when I’m first starting to work with somebody and we’re. We’re at the bare, bare minimum of getting them to start understanding their Patterns, Right? I’ll always start with the firefighters. So again, ladies, what are the things that you reach for to when you’re training, quote, unquote, numb out, right? Like you’ve had a rough day, you come home, what do you do? Is it alcohol? Is it Netflix? Is it doom scrolling on your phone? Is it overeating? Like, what are those behaviors that have become just like a constant part of your daily life? And so what I teach them to do is when you start to realize that you’re gravitating towards that thing, I want you to stop and I want you to feel in your body right now, am I hungry? Why am I watching this? What am I doing? What am I trying to ignore or avoid right now by engaging in this behavior? Right? Dawn Wiggins [00:25:55]: What am I trying not to do? Coach Tiffini [00:25:57]: In other words, we had a client who she likes to overeat and binge watch a lot, right? So she was actually so proud of herself because over the weekend she had a major shift. The overeating has now stopped and also the binge watching, right? So she was like, oh, like I actually was able to binge this program. And I realized that I was actually doing it because it was giving me pure enjoyment rather than me just sitting and numbing out. And I was like, whoa. Right? So again, it’s about recognizing what are the things you’re reaching for. That’s like the first thing is to be able to make a list of those things. And then when you notice that you’re engaging in those behaviors, what’s the emotion behind it? What are you ignoring or avoiding right now? And I think as women, what I find so profound is that a lot of the women in our programs and who gravitate into our universe are women who are healers. In other words, nurses, teachers, people who are responsible for other people. Coach Tiffini [00:26:51]: So if you think about it at work in those situations, yes, you have to dissociate a lot. And then you come home and you have to dissociate with your children because you can’t let them see all the big emotions, right? So it’s like these women that are stuck in these patterns, they don’t know how to be present with themselves. They don’t even know what the hell that is. It’s impossible. Dawn Wiggins [00:27:11]: I think that’s what one of the things I would say healing and especially with homeopathy. Right. Has done for me. I no longer can disassociate without feeling icky, icky, icky, right? So I can’t for more than a few minutes or Hours go into that place where I’m intentionally suppressing or repressing without feeling not good in my body, mind. And so then I know it’s happening, right? And I think the thing. The place I spot that most often is with my kid, right? If there’s something I have to get out of me, I have to go journal it or talk it out with somebody or get on the phone or. Right. Like, work that through. Dawn Wiggins [00:27:54]: Because when I feel myself compartmentalizing for her benefit, it takes a toll. I also think that one of the things women don’t realize is driving their dissociative process is their level of fatigue, exhaustion, and burnout. Because when we feel so burnt out and it feels so horrible to be in our bodies in that burnout state, which is why we developed over at test and homeopathics a burnout blend. How do we survive that chronic state of exhaustion and fatigue? And it’s like, we check out to do it, and then, oh, Lord, the. The town is burning. What were you gonna say, Joy? Producer Joy [00:28:34]: No, I rose my hand because, like, yeah, like, it’s right as me. I’m the. Like, I don’t want to say I’m the problem, but, like, I relate to that so much. Being the. How much is related to my fatigue and my overwhelm all the time. I’ve got. I’ve got three children. I’ve got a husband. Producer Joy [00:28:55]: I’ve got a house. There’s always something that needs to be done or someone that needs me. It’s never a. And I don’t, you know, like, this is a Thursday episode issue, but, like, I have a lovely, lovely husband. He is amazing. But the first huge chunk of our marriage, I was the masculine and needed and the feminine, the nurturing mom and the one that had to do all the things and carry, juggle all the bills. So, like, my system is recovering from being in my masculine energy 100 of the time with juggling all of the functioning special needs doctor’s appointments, you know, like, all of it. So fatigue is something that I personally relate to very, very deeply, just always getting to be. Producer Joy [00:29:51]: So the burnout blend is amazing. And I am also, you know, constitutionally have noticed my capacity is unlike, you know, like, I’ve never had this much capacity before. But I do believe a lot of my dissociation habits is a nervous system issue rooted in exhaustion years past. Coach Tiffini [00:30:14]: I was gonna say that too, Joy, and I’m so glad that you said that personally, because for me, the first sign that our clients are starting to see shifts is because when we can move them from a state of dissociation to being able to tolerate being present, their capacity is incredible. Like, then we get the text messages that say, holy, I got through my week and I’m not burnout and I don’t have anxiety when I wake up anymore and I’m not in that I. Producer Joy [00:30:38]: Didn’T have the Sunday icks. Yep. Dawn Wiggins [00:30:39]: Yes. Coach Tiffini [00:30:40]: So it’s like once you’re able to move through that association, you will be amazed at what you can do and how much better you will feel. Dawn Wiggins [00:30:47]: It’s a bandwidth eater, right? That’s the thing. It’s like we, we celebrate almost the ability to compartmentalize in our, I think our modern world and our ability to over function in our modern world. We like celebrate these things but like man, we don’t realize how to. I do think we realize how depleted we are as a society, but we don’t realize how much of that is on the backs of disassociation and chronic compartmentalization. It is like I used to talk about this a lot when I was learning how to do emdr, but it’s like defragging the computer. And like kids these days don’t know what it. Don’t remember what it was to defrag a computer, but it was like when all the files and the file types were all mixed up and you had to, you know, you were trying to get your computer to function more optimally. You would run a defrag, right? And it would like sort everything and organize it and then the clean spaces would have clean spaces and everything would. Dawn Wiggins [00:31:35]: All the apples were at the apples and the bananas were with the bananas. And it did, it allowed your computer to run more efficiently. And that’s what’s happening. We’ve disassociated so much. Our computers are not running efficiently at all. And that’s, it’s, it’s all tied together with sleep and nutrition and all of that. But yeah, man, I really love that analogy. Producer Joy [00:31:53]: That’s a great one. Dawn Wiggins [00:31:55]: Yeah. Anything else we want to say about how to catch it before we move into our small shifts? Big wins, small wins, big shifts. Either way you want to say it. How to spot disassociation. Producer Joy [00:32:08]: So I have a super interesting one. This is my daughter. I spot it in my daughter the most. The easy. I spot it in my daughter easier than I spot it in me. Coach Tiffini [00:32:19]: I think that’s. Dawn Wiggins [00:32:20]: Well, that’s, I think that’s really probably. Producer Joy [00:32:23]: But when we were sitting around the table this weekend having some really, really hard conversations with my 13 year old, she picked up a fidget ring and she started humming. Now, dawn, if you remember, you said something hard to me a few weeks ago, and I stood there and I started humming and you were like, right. Did your mind just explode? Because I was like, oh, my gosh. I was like, what is happening right now? Because I see you, you’re like, you’re. Dawn Wiggins [00:32:51]: Yeah. Producer Joy [00:32:51]: You’re trying not to feel what is happening with your dad and I in this, in this moment. And she’s like, I am not. And then I was like, okay, let’s tap. And then she started, like, beating. She was like aggressively tapping her, you know, bilateral, because she, she, you know, it was so hard for her to feel what was happening. And so it was so interesting. And I, And I catch it now more that she. My kids hum when they don’t want to be, which is in the moment. Dawn Wiggins [00:33:20]: Because it’s soothing to the nervous system. Right? So it’s a grounding. It’s a vagal stimulating. It’s excellent. It’s. Producer Joy [00:33:26]: It’s. Dawn Wiggins [00:33:26]: It’s the system trying to stay online. Right? It’s right. I’m trying to cope with what I am experiencing right now. That’s right. So that’s beautiful. And then, like, how can we support her, you whoever, right? And move through this and feeling supported. Right? So we love a good hum. We recommend it highly to get the nervous system grounded. Dawn Wiggins [00:33:46]: And all those years of telling them. Producer Joy [00:33:48]: To hum right now, they just. Dawn Wiggins [00:33:49]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, reach for it. Producer Joy [00:33:51]: Right. Dawn Wiggins [00:33:52]: But look how the body just knows to do it. Producer Joy [00:33:56]: Yeah, yeah. Dawn Wiggins [00:33:57]: Amazing. I love just cuing myself, my kid, like our. The ladies we work with. Like, it’s safe to feel what you’re feeling. Right. Like, that’s part of what we were really helping them own this last month in this particular cycle of healing. Right. It’s safe to stay in my body and feel what I’ve been trying to avoid feeling all these years. Dawn Wiggins [00:34:19]: Yeah. Awesome. All right, loves. Let us. Let us move. Let us move together to hear what the women who we. To hear what our listeners are experiencing. Can I start? Coach Tiffini [00:34:36]: Yeah, go for it. Dawn Wiggins [00:34:37]: No. Okay. Producer Joy [00:34:38]: All right. Dawn Wiggins [00:34:39]: This is from Amanda. Amanda, thank you so much for submitting your shifts and your wins. Amanda is taking steps to enjoy her wintering season. Coach Tiffini [00:34:48]: Oh, girl. Dawn Wiggins [00:34:49]:

1. The cold and I did not agree with each other from now until we spring forward again. I know instead of dreading the early darkness in the alone time, and I think that’s such a good point. Divorcing in the winter where it’s darker and you’re feeling that much more alone. Like Amanda. This is like a. It’s a big shift and a big win, right? So Amanda says I have lights on a timer to come on. I have a story about that.

Dawn Wiggins [00:35:13]: I turn on lamps in different rooms. I go into light a candle, put on relaxing music, have a cup of tea or eat dinner depending on how I feel. I have art supplies at hand, audiobooks ready and journals near while I have a movie on or just music. It’s the season for holiday rom coms. That’s right. I’m working to shut all things off by 8:30 or 9pm to make time to soak in a warm bath before bed. Amanda, you are killing it in the healing game. I protect my mornings so I can wake up slow, do some somatic exercises and get ready for the tasks of the day. Dawn Wiggins [00:35:42]: Not every day works out exactly, but I’m enjoying this season and making the most of it as I can. I’m giving myself room for healing tears. Oh, healing tears. Rest and comfort. It feels like a must for me at this point in my life and like a big step that I finally feel I’m ready to make into what the rest of my life on my own needs to look like for no one but me. I love that we are reading Amanda’s share specifically on Today with this episode because this is what it looks like when you’re moving. You’ve moved out or moving out of a tendency to disassociate, right? This is what it feels it’s like to make these intentional choices. So like turning the lights on and a timer, you cues your nervous system that it’s safe and you don’t have to disassociate. Dawn Wiggins [00:36:29]: When I was in a post divorce space, I would always leave very specific lamps on so that I could come home to a space that felt warm so I could stay present in my body for a period. When my now husband and I were dating, I would ring the doorbell when I got home from work at the end of the day so that I felt welcomed into my house. I was changing habits. I was reaching for this feeling where warm feeling connected, staying in my body thing. Warm baths. Women’s nervous systems prefer warmth. I’m sorry Joy. It just is. Dawn Wiggins [00:37:02]: Yeah, warmth is a sense of safety. So those warm baths, like being in the womb, right. Are so, so so healing. So yeah, lighting, nourishing, warm food, so good for the winter, right? Baths, lighting, music, all that stuff. Amanda, we are so proud of you. These are intentional healing decisions that allow your nervous system to feel safe, Safe in your body. To feel and heal. Couldn’t be more proud. Producer Joy [00:37:24]: Love it. Love it. I’m kind of, you know, semi obsessed and want to be your friend because it sounds like a perfect, perfect evening. Okay, my win is from Jane. Jane says, I went to a concert this weekend with my son in Buffalo, New York. It was such a bonding experience. I told my son that I want to plan another trip with him soon. We had a great time. Producer Joy [00:37:47]: And what a beautiful, beautiful. Dawn Wiggins [00:37:50]: When like, Jane, what concert did you go to? Producer Joy [00:37:54]: Ah, left out important detail. Coach Tiffini [00:37:57]: Send us a dm. Tell us. Dawn Wiggins [00:37:58]: Jane, send us a dm. Tell us what concert you went to with your son. And music is so good when we are trying to break through disassociation also, right? And especially live music because it has a vibration to it that really helps us get grounded and into our bodies and feeling. So it’s really hard. Like, I challenge you, can you go to a concert and stay disassociated? Probably not. Because there’s just something so powerful about the energy, the music, the vibration, the drums, the frequency, the lights, the. All the stuff, right? And so we tend to have. We tend to feel and connect more in those types of spaces. Dawn Wiggins [00:38:31]: So, Jane, huge shift, huge win. You felt connected with him. You probably felt more connected to yourself, more connected to your feelings. But I want to know what show. Show you saw. Send us a dm for sure. What you got, Tiffany? Coach Tiffini [00:38:44]: So our last one is from Addie. Hey, Addie. We love Addy. Dawn Wiggins [00:38:48]: Hey, Addy. All right. Coach Tiffini [00:38:50]: One recent win that really stood out to me was a day out with my kids. We were having a hard time finding a fishing spot that would make everyone happy. Old me would have kept trying to find one that would make everyone happy, and instead this time, I found one that I felt was best and stood with the choice I made and felt strong enough to sit in the discomfort. When one of the children complained, I noticed that they were comforted by me standing by my choice and not continuing to try to make everyone happy. Addie, as someone that had a very codependent relationship with my daughter for a very long time, I freaking love this. Because I realized that once I started making these shifts to stand and be comfortable with my choices, your kids nervous systems immediately calm in response to your assertiveness. Dawn Wiggins [00:39:35]: That’s right. Coach Tiffini [00:39:36]: Yeah. Dawn Wiggins [00:39:37]: This is massive. Yeah. Coach Tiffini [00:39:40]: Kids will attack you if you’re wishy washy. Kids sense that a mile away and they will come for you. Dawn Wiggins [00:39:45]: A hole in your fence. They’re gonna exploit it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Coach Tiffini [00:39:51]: I love that though. Great job. Excellent. Excellent. Dawn Wiggins [00:39:54]: Amazing. So this is a call to all of the listeners out there in Dear Divorce Diary land. If you have not submitted a win yet. We love voice notes. Voice notes are amazing. So either send us a voice note or send us your wins or your shifts. We need to celebrate these things together as a community. It is how we grow. Dawn Wiggins [00:40:16]: It’s how we connect. It’s how we get to know each other better. It is how we move up on the vibrational scale by focusing on what’s good and what’s working. It is we focus way too much on the bad and not enough on the good shit. So send us your wins. It is essential to us rising together. We love you so much. Peace.