Addiction to Toxic Relationships: Why You Keep Going Back After Divorce

5 Key Takeaways

1. Toxic relationships can function like an addiction. The pull you feel isn’t just emotional—it’s neurological, driven by dopamine and habit loops.
2. It’s not love—it’s often emotional avoidance. Scrolling, texting, overthinking, or going back are ways to escape deeper feelings like shame or fear.
3. Codependency is a socially accepted addiction. Seeking approval, fixing others, or needing to be chosen can keep you stuck in unhealthy dynamics.
4. Your nervous system is wired to repeat familiar patterns. Even painful relationships can feel “safe” because they are known and conditioned.
5. Awareness is the first step to breaking the cycle. Once you recognize the pattern, you can begin to interrupt it and choose differently.

FAQ

What is an addiction to toxic relationships?

An addiction to toxic relationships is a pattern where someone repeatedly returns to unhealthy partners or behaviors despite knowing they are harmful. This happens because the brain becomes attached to emotional highs and lows, creating a cycle similar to addiction driven by dopamine and habit.

Why can’t I leave a toxic relationship even when I know it’s bad?

You may struggle to leave because your nervous system is conditioned to the relationship. Emotional attachment, fear of loss, and dopamine-driven habits can create a strong pull that feels like love but is often a learned pattern of dependency.

Is addiction to toxic relationships the same as codependency?

They are closely related but not identical. Codependency involves seeking approval, fixing others, or needing to be chosen, while addiction to toxic relationships focuses more on the repeated emotional and neurological pull toward unhealthy dynamics. Codependency often fuels the addiction.

What are signs you’re addicted to a toxic relationship?

Common signs include repeatedly going back to the same person, checking their social media, feeling unable to let go, ignoring red flags, and experiencing emotional highs and lows that feel intense or all-consuming.

How do you break the cycle of toxic relationships?

Breaking the cycle starts with awareness. You need to recognize the pattern, stop reinforcing the behavior, and learn to process underlying emotions instead of avoiding them. Building a regulated nervous system and setting boundaries are key steps toward lasting change.

Highlights

• 00:00 Breaking Codependency in Divorce Recovery
• 04:41 Unpacking Hidden Addictions
• 08:37 Breaking Free from Drama Addiction
• 10:36 Escaping Shame through Numbness
• 14:29 “Redefining Genuine Connection”
• 19:29 Cycle of Becoming
• 23:17 Embracing Feedback to Overcome Blindspots
• 24:33 Facing Dependency Issues
• 29:03 Healing and Awareness After Divorce
• 33:42 Empowerment Through Self-Ownership
• 36:30 “Identifying Partner Relationship Themes
• 40:06 “Safe Feeling & Intimacy Program”
• 41:04 “Divorce Diary Podcast”

Full Transcript

Dawn Wiggins [00:00:00]:

We just wrapped up in a live IFS session where coach Tiffany coached producer Joy through an IFS session. And I am shook. It was amazing. Producer Joy was able to work through some wild old memories and really create some big shifts. And this is an episode you do not want to miss. Towards the end, I pop in, we start to have some conversation. I just couldn’t hold it in anymore. It was so exciting.

Dawn Wiggins [00:00:30]:

We talk a little bit about how to integrate somatics into the IFS process. And if about three quarters into the session where coach Tiffany asks producer Joy to have some internal dialogue, you may not be able to hear this on the tape, but from the back of the room, I was like, add some bilateral stimulation, AKA do some emdr. So this session truly was an integrated piece of magic. It was pre facilitated by homeopathy.

Coach Tiffini [00:00:56]:

Facilitated.

Dawn Wiggins [00:00:57]:

Facilitated by coach Tiffany and producer Joy.

Producer Joy [00:01:00]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:01:00]:

And then add a little EMDR and hot damn. Enjoy.

Producer Joy [00:01:05]:

Hi, Joy.

Coach Tiffini [00:01:07]:

Hi, Tiffany.

Producer Joy [00:01:09]:

So today I’m really excited to get the opportunity to do IFS with Joy, and I’m excited to dig into Joy’s parts a little bit. How are you feeling about everything?

Coach Tiffini [00:01:20]:

I’m excited. I. Yeah, good. I’m a little nervous, but I’m here for it. Like, I like knowing myself better. So.

Producer Joy [00:01:28]:

And full disclosure, we were sitting out on the balcony a couple days ago, and Joy asked if she could know what the questions were that I was going to ask her because Joy has a controller manager that needs to know how we’re going to do everything today. And I would not answer.

Coach Tiffini [00:01:42]:

No, she wouldn’t.

Producer Joy [00:01:43]:

No clues. No clues. Joy, do you want to talk about the thing that kind of is the most prominent to you in your adult life right now? The thing that seems to stand in your way more than anything and is the loudest in your head? Because you and I discussed this prior. We know which manager you’re going to work on today, but if you want to just explain which manager we’re going to tackle and why that means the most to you right now for this point in your life. Yeah.

Coach Tiffini [00:02:09]:

So at this juncture, at this season, I am really focused in working on my people pleasing manager, in which I make myself smaller so other people are more comfortable. And I suppress or push down any thoughts or feelings or ideas or attitudes or anything that I would be most authentic in or to make other people comfortable and to please other people to make them happy. Because if they’re happy, I’m safe.

Producer Joy [00:02:45]:

Can you remember the first time that you started to feel this way?

Coach Tiffini [00:02:48]:

Not specifically. I remember As a child, my mother, who loved me fiercely. I’m not shaming her, but there was a pattern of behavior in which if I disappointed her, if I said something that hurt her feelings, that she would stop speaking to me and she would stop. She would withdraw herself, sometimes weeks at a time because I hurt her feelings. Her feelings were hurt. I. It was never an action. It was always a word or a sentence or like something that I cut her with my words and she just couldn’t.

Coach Tiffini [00:03:27]:

So she just shut down. Like, she just removed herself from my presence as a child.

Producer Joy [00:03:33]:

Okay, and as a child, what do you remember that feeling, like, in your body?

Coach Tiffini [00:03:39]:

I felt very scared. I felt very ensure unsafe. You know, as a teen, years, of course, that was. I would roll my eyes and whatever, mom, right. But like that, needing to be good, to be loved. I needed to be. I needed to perform a certain way and be quiet and just be pleasing. I wasn’t allowed to have.

Producer Joy [00:04:06]:

I wasn’t allowed, you know, like, big emotions, big feelings. For those of you who don’t know, producer Joy, she is like a ray of sunshine. She is a force. So to know that that was surprised, that’s sad to me.

Coach Tiffini [00:04:19]:

I’m doing it now. I’m literally in my body. Like, I don’t want her to hear this and. And think that I think she was a bad mom, you know, like, I’m doing it in my body now thinking, like, no, no, she was a good mom. She loved me and did her best, but she had unhealed parts, you know, like her childhood. So, like, I feel myself doing it.

Producer Joy [00:04:40]:

Okay, all right, so what we’ll do, Joy, is we’ll go ahead and get started. So the manager that Joy wants to address today is her people pleaser. So that is where we’re going to start out and go today. So, Joy, I want you to go ahead and close your eyes for me, and I want you to take just a few deep breaths. Now I want you to go ahead and envision yourself in a place that you feel safe and you feel calm. And then when you’re there in your mind, I want you to describe to me where you are.

Coach Tiffini [00:05:15]:

I’m in the mountains. The breeze is cool. The birds are singing. The leaves in the trees are rustling. Little stream is trickling. The sun is like streaming through the tree line.

Producer Joy [00:05:36]:

So I want you to imagine that as you’re walking through the woods, you happen to see your people pleaser manager. And I want you to describe for me initially what they look like.

Coach Tiffini [00:05:48]:

So the first thing I saw Was little girl. Me being small.

Producer Joy [00:05:54]:

About how old do you think she is?

Coach Tiffini [00:05:57]:

Maybe nine. At nine, it’s. It’s when I was. I was riding. We had a white Explorer, and I was riding in the back because, you know, back then you didn’t have seat belts. So I was laying down in the back end, and I heard her tell my dad that she didn’t like me. They thought I was asleep, and they were having a very frank conversation about me. And I heard her say the words that she didn’t like me and my people pleasing because I said that out loud.

Coach Tiffini [00:06:33]:

Now, my people pleasing is. Well, I had ADD and she couldn’t handle me and all the things. And so, like, that’s the little girl that wasn’t good enough and wasn’t safe enough to be me.

Producer Joy [00:06:46]:

So when you walk up to her, Joy, in the woods and you see her there, what does she do when she notices you?

Coach Tiffini [00:06:55]:

She, like, shies away a little bit. Mm.

Producer Joy [00:06:57]:

Okay.

Coach Tiffini [00:06:59]:

She steps back.

Producer Joy [00:07:01]:

And then as you approach her and ask her if you’re allowed to sit down and have a conversation with her, what does she say?

Coach Tiffini [00:07:09]:

Yes.

Producer Joy [00:07:10]:

Okay.

Coach Tiffini [00:07:11]:

She wants to make me happy.

Producer Joy [00:07:13]:

Is there anything else that you notice about her physically or just that she is a mirror image of you at nine?

Coach Tiffini [00:07:20]:

She has unruly hair.

Producer Joy [00:07:25]:

And how do you feel in your body sitting next to her?

Coach Tiffini [00:07:29]:

I feel scared. Mm.

Producer Joy [00:07:33]:

Okay.

Coach Tiffini [00:07:34]:

Feel unsure. Like I’m gonna say something that scares her and I’m gonna do something that makes her feel unloved or uncomfortable.

Producer Joy [00:07:46]:

Do you feel like there’s another part coming forward that’s trying to protect her?

Coach Tiffini [00:07:51]:

I just wanna hold her.

Producer Joy [00:07:53]:

Okay. And then if that feels good, you can do that and see if she’ll come sit up with you. So I’d like you to ask her, Joy, how old does she think you are?

Coach Tiffini [00:08:06]:

Old.

Producer Joy [00:08:07]:

Okay, so she recognizes your current age, or does she think that you’re older than you are?

Coach Tiffini [00:08:16]:

She probably feels that I’m older than I am.

Producer Joy [00:08:19]:

Okay. Can you ask her how she ended up getting her job as the people pleaser to keep the peace when you were younger, growing up, how well does she think she did her job?

Coach Tiffini [00:08:36]:

Not well.

Producer Joy [00:08:37]:

And why is that?

Coach Tiffini [00:08:39]:

I think she feels like she was never good enough.

Producer Joy [00:08:44]:

And now in this phase of your life, how good of a job does she think she’s doing as your people pleaser?

Coach Tiffini [00:08:52]:

I think she has spent many, many years trying hard to keep me safe and to, like, if she works a little bit harder and she does a little bit more, people will like me. And stay and people will like me and want me around.

Producer Joy [00:09:12]:

What is she afraid is going to happen to you if she doesn’t do her job?

Coach Tiffini [00:09:17]:

That no one actually likes me. If I’m not what they want me to be, then they’ll leave like that. I don’t actually have anybody in my life. Mm.

Producer Joy [00:09:29]:

What would she rather be doing?

Coach Tiffini [00:09:32]:

Having fun. Mm. Mm.

Producer Joy [00:09:35]:

What does she feel like she needs to see from you in order to step back in her job?

Coach Tiffini [00:09:40]:

Me. To be a stronger, authentic, like, secure in being me being stronger. That resonates. Mm.

Producer Joy [00:09:54]:

What else does she want you to know, Joy?

Coach Tiffini [00:09:56]:

That I’m good enough. I’m allowed to be opinionated, and I’m allowed to be right. And I’m allowed to be loud. And I’m not just talking. I’m not just talking about the loud laugh or loud volume, but, like, take up space.

Producer Joy [00:10:24]:

Okay. What are some things that you want to tell her?

Coach Tiffini [00:10:30]:

That she did a really good job, and then I’m okay.

Producer Joy [00:10:38]:

So what I want you to do now, Joy, is when you feel ready, you can have some internal conversation with her, if you would like. And then when you’re ready, you can just come back out and tell me when you’re ready. All right. So how are you feeling after that?

Coach Tiffini [00:10:51]:

I feel good. I feel I gave her a big hug and said thank you.

Producer Joy [00:10:56]:

So second piece of this, then, is going back to rework the memory of that day when she was created in the back of the car. Right. So how would you have wanted that day to go differently? How should that day have gone for you?

Coach Tiffini [00:11:13]:

I think that any child hearing their parent say something derogatory about them behind their back, it’s just. It cuts you and molds you. So I wish I had, like, sat up and said, what did you mean by that? Or I wish I had been brave enough not to pretend I was asleep. Mm.

Producer Joy [00:11:41]:

So I want you to close your eyes for me and just take a couple deep breaths. And I want you to just imagine, Joy, that you are walking as yourself up to the car, and you are taking that little girl into your arms. And what would you tell her about that day?

Coach Tiffini [00:12:12]:

That it’s okay because I like you more.

Producer Joy [00:12:18]:

And if you were to bring her into your life now, where do you feel like she would be the most happy? And what do you see her doing?

Coach Tiffini [00:12:28]:

Being wild. Being free. Being loud. Being educated. Not reprimanded. Mm.

Producer Joy [00:12:35]:

So coming back out of that, the way that we put the pieces together in this is recognizing those initial body sensations that you have when you start to feel like your people pleaser manager is about ready to come on scene. So when you feel like you’re being judged or you’re starting to feel feelings of insecurity or somebody says a comment, how does your body tell you?

Coach Tiffini [00:13:03]:

Mm, yeah. So my arms, the skin on my arms gets tingly. You know earlier when I said that thing about my mom, like, no, no, she loved me because my whole arms, the topical skin of my arms just went ablaze.

Producer Joy [00:13:23]:

I could see them get red.

Coach Tiffini [00:13:24]:

Yeah.

Producer Joy [00:13:25]:

Like you change quickly. Oh, really? Oh, yeah.

Coach Tiffini [00:13:27]:

Is it visible change too? That’s interesting. Okay. That’s so interesting.

Producer Joy [00:13:31]:

Yeah. So the whole point of reworking that memory is that the next time being very self aware, that the next time you start feeling that sensation in your body, I want you to picture nine year old Joy in your world now, feral and wild and doing her thing. Whether that’s in the backyard with the dogs, you know, doing whatever she want to do, catching fireflies, flying a cat, like whatever it is. But your body and your brain will learn to bring that into your memory. That will be the new memory. Because right now, what’s happening every single time is that when you feel that sensation in your body and people pleaser comes up, she goes right back to being in the back of that car.

Coach Tiffini [00:14:15]:

Oh.

Producer Joy [00:14:17]:

So you have to give your brain and visual.

Coach Tiffini [00:14:20]:

Okay, okay. So when my arms are on fire, I grab that little girl out.

Producer Joy [00:14:26]:

Yes.

Coach Tiffini [00:14:27]:

Okay.

Producer Joy [00:14:27]:

You just keep bringing her back into your world until it incorporates and that’s where your brain automatically goes.

Coach Tiffini [00:14:33]:

Mm, okay. That’s fascinating. Yeah. Okay.

Producer Joy [00:14:39]:

So Joy, why don’t you go ahead and just get up for me, shake it out a little bit and then come back and tell me what you’re noticing. So the reason too, why we’re asking Joy to get up and move around is because it is expelling all of that energy and it is resetting the memory as well. It’s allowing her to get up and get wild and free. And the thing that I asked her to do is the thing that she can do. And so it kind of like cements not that in her mind. So, Joy, what I would ask you to do over the next couple of weeks is I would ask you to be very intentional and self aware when you start feeling that sensation in your body to start bringing her into your world. I would also challenge you to start setting boundaries with those around you. And if you don’t understand what someone is telling you, challenge back.

Producer Joy [00:15:19]:

What did you mean by that? What does that mean? Okay, do not sit and let it ruminate in your brain, do you? Because that’s the cycle. That’s the cycle you’re in. So instead of speaking up, you’re still that little girl in the back of the car afraid to get up and say, hello, I’m here. I need to know what’s happening.

Coach Tiffini [00:15:37]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:15:39]:

When were we mapping a memory? And we can pull the somatics in just like Coach Tiffany had. You get up and shake it off.

Coach Tiffini [00:15:48]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:15:49]:

So when you’re doing this work over the next couple of weeks and you feel that movement on your skin, speaking up may not feel super available right away because it’s a new pattern, it’s a new behavior. And any new pattern feels awkward and it doesn’t always come naturally right away. So anytime we can include somatics. If you were at a fancy function and you were just a tay in the wind. What’s that movie? I don’t remember. My girlfriend Ty used to always quote that. That would be hysterical. And I enjoy.

Coach Tiffini [00:16:26]:

I envision like those, those blowy things.

Producer Joy [00:16:29]:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Coach Tiffini [00:16:30]:

And like the advertisement outside businesses.

Producer Joy [00:16:33]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:34]:

You’re like, no, but just the idea when you make that mental connection with that nine year old girl and you say, hey, let’s. You know, it can almost be like your own little inner secret, like your inside joke with yourself.

Producer Joy [00:16:46]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:47]:

So yes, if I see you across the ballroom giggling and like shaking, I’ll doing.

Coach Tiffini [00:16:52]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:52]:

But it’s just that little internal nod to her.

Coach Tiffini [00:16:55]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:56]:

And to physically move, it will be easier for her to find her voice. Right. It’s creating that neural pathway. So there’s a book that I love that I read so many moons ago called Waking the Tiger. And it’s a trauma book, but it talks about how when our typical pattern is fight, flight, freeze. Fawn, we all have a typical.

Coach Tiffini [00:17:16]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:16]:

And in this particular memory, it was freeze.

Coach Tiffini [00:17:19]:

Yeah.

Producer Joy [00:17:19]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:19]:

You described feeling frozen. So if as you’re reimagining this memory and you’re breaking this pattern, if you can do movement, it will help integrate the new way of doing it. And it’ll make the vocal part of. Hey, what do you mean by that?

Coach Tiffini [00:17:34]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:34]:

Come easier and it’ll just help it all integrate. Because we know from talk therapy. Right. That if we are only healing through talking.

Coach Tiffini [00:17:42]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:42]:

It’s just not going to go deep enough.

Coach Tiffini [00:17:44]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:44]:

We have to add the somatics. We have to add the subconscious belief.

Producer Joy [00:17:47]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:47]:

So it’s like just pulling, pulling all these things together somatically, even if the movement is small.

Coach Tiffini [00:17:53]:

Right. That Makes sense. That makes sense. But like, I could add a delicate butterfly tap something, anything.

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:00]:

Yep. It’s just the idea of not being frozen.

Coach Tiffini [00:18:03]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:03]:

That’s it.

Coach Tiffini [00:18:03]:

Okay. I do freeze for sure. Okay. What’s so interesting about this particular memory is that I’ve done EMDR around my mom, hearing my mom, but I’ve never thought about me. Like the fact that I didn’t sit up or I didn’t protect myself or I didn’t like it didn’t. I never have gone there before.

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:32]:

So you did EMDR on this memory?

Coach Tiffini [00:18:34]:

I did EMDR about telling like the whole. Not good enough.

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:38]:

But did that memory come up and was this pre homeopathy?

Coach Tiffini [00:18:43]:

This was pre homeopathy.

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:44]:

So that’s the thing, right? Love’s like loves. I need you to hear this. Joy went to emdr. She did some good EMDR work. But your level of dissociation was too high. And honestly, what you were describing as being frozen in the back of the car and not having the courage. We’re not going to call that not having the courage anymore. Going to call that dissociation.

Dawn Wiggins [00:19:10]:

That is probably not in any way the first time you dissociated.

Coach Tiffini [00:19:14]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:19:14]:

Because a mom that’s already speaking that way about her child has already acted away energetically for the nine years leading up to that moment.

Coach Tiffini [00:19:19]:

Yeah, for sure.

Dawn Wiggins [00:19:20]:

Okay, so you were dissociated in the.

Coach Tiffini [00:19:22]:

Back of that car. That makes. That clicks. It just. I’m going to start crying again. That clicks everything.

Dawn Wiggins [00:19:32]:

That clicks everything. And so what homeopathy did is it opened all of the pathways, it cleared all the energetic blocks, reinforcing dissociation. And so when you did this session with Tiffany, you were able to have the emotional release that you never ever had, not from that day when the event happened and not in the emdr. Pre homeopathy.

Coach Tiffini [00:19:56]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:19:56]:

And so it’s not that you didn’t get any benefit from the emdr. You connected some dots. Right. You understood yourself better. You were maybe able to release to whatever degree you were able to reach into that.

Coach Tiffini [00:20:09]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:20:09]:

But it was largely intellectual, not embodied.

Coach Tiffini [00:20:12]:

Yes.

Dawn Wiggins [00:20:13]:

Today you experienced the relief of an emotional release. And now it is so much more likely that that memory passes back into long term storage where it was meant to go in a non dissociative process.

Coach Tiffini [00:20:28]:

Wow. My mind is like so blown right now because coming into today I truly was just like, I’ve done so much work. I don’t know how good this episode is going to be. Like, I can’t. I don’t even know if I can access what she’s wanting me to access anymore. So I cannot even articulate.

Dawn Wiggins [00:20:49]:

But this is the point, right? Anywhere you are experiencing patterns in your relationships, right? And this pattern comes up in our relationship. We’re letting them see behind the podcast microphone, right. This pattern comes up in our relationship a lot. Like in hearing this session, it is so much easier to love you now knowing these little, like these little textures, right. Like, when this pattern comes up, I know where it’s coming from. Now I understand which part I’m talking to and how to love that part.

Coach Tiffini [00:21:18]:

Well. Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:21:19]:

So anytime you’re having patterns come up in any of your relationships. So for our listeners, whether this is in dating, and that’s same thing gets triggered on a first date or a third date or a twelfth date, or it’s coming up with their kiddos or it’s coming up with their ex. Anytime we’re seeing repetitive patterns where we are going to not good enough. Or lonely or insecure or anxious or whatever it is, there is some memory somewhere with something hung up.

Coach Tiffini [00:21:44]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:21:45]:

Otherwise the pattern wouldn’t be patterning. So I was in the room for this entire session. It changed my life to hear it.

Producer Joy [00:21:52]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:21:52]:

Because these are two women that I love so fiercely and so deeply. And now I just, you know, get to know more and love them harder and all the things. Thank you so much for being here. You are pure magic. Peace.

You said: ExchangeDawn Wiggins [00:00:00]:

Tell me if this sounds familiar. You swore you’d stop checking his profile, but there you were at 1am scrolling. And you also told yourself just one glass of wine to relax, and somehow that stinking bottpastedExchange
with

with

5:41 PMClaude responded:

Dawn Wiggins [00:00:00]:

Dawn Wiggins [00:00:00]:

Tell me if this sounds familiar. You swore you’d stop checking his profile, but there you were at 1am scrolling. And you also told yourself just one glass of wine to relax, and somehow that stinking bottle is empty. And you swore you’d never go back to someone who treats you like that. And yet you answered the text. Dang it. We don’t typically call that addiction, but what else do you call it when you can’t let go, even when you know it’s hurting you? Hi, love. Welcome to Dear Divorced Diary, the podcast helping divorcees go beyond talk therapy to process your grief, find the healing you crave, and build back your confidence.

Dawn Wiggins [00:00:48]:

I’m your host, Dawn Wiggins, a therapist, coach, integrative healer, and divorce. Join me for a fresh approach to healing grief and building your confidence after divorce. Okay, darlings, we are on fire over here today, so watch out. I have producer Joy and coach Tiffany, and we are really excited to talk about coaching codependency today and scare the pants out of you. No, no, we don’t scare pants out. We scare pants off. Scare the pants off of you. By really taking a look at the ways in which codependency is actually a hidden addiction.

Dawn Wiggins [00:01:35]:

So in today’s episode, we are going to talk about the hidden addiction of codependency. You tend to relate to addiction looking like rehab, rock bottom, you know, a bottle of vodka in your desk drawer at work, but what it actually looks like is also pouring another glass of wine just so you can sleep. Or refreshing his social media even though you swear you wouldn’t. Right. The truth is codependency is an addiction to approval, to fixing, to being chosen. And the withdrawal, the actual symptoms of withdrawal, the neurobiological experiences are just as real. We are also going to talk about the way that the sort of good girl mentality many of us have been raised to have is a trap for this whole codependent addiction cycle. Cycle.

Dawn Wiggins [00:02:18]:

Right? So every time you set a boundary, guilt drags you back. Every time you say never again, loneliness pulls you into another half love. That’s the. The trap right there. Right? Craving connection so deeply, which is. Right. We’re built for connection. But while simultaneously and probably subconsciously not believing you can have it or still carrying a wound from times that somebody’s connection was withdrawn from you.

Dawn Wiggins [00:02:40]:

And so you keep sacrificing yourself to get scraps of it until your nervous system learns safety, which is what we help women do over here, is really help the nervous system embody safety. You can’t think your Way out of this loop that you’re in, right? That sort of ache, reaching for connection and then just settling. And then finally, at the end of the episode, we are going to talk about why this conversation about addiction and codependency is so freaking important for divorce women. Because codependency is a socially accepted addiction. Instead of a bottle or a pill, you get hooked on approval, fixing and being chose in. And we, if anything, have validated each other for all of that self sacrificing martyrdom bullshit, right? But like any addiction, it rewires your nervous system, Your stress hormones spike, your self esteem plummets, your identity gets hijacked by other people’s needs. And just like alcohol or drugs, the brain map and the withdrawal that happens when you don’t have access to those things, the anxiety, the loneliness, the cravings are real. And so our approach to divorce recovery is different because it takes this into context.

Dawn Wiggins [00:03:46]:

And we are going to talk about the evidence we’ve gathered over the years that you need to hear because there are a couple of very specific metrics that we’ve looked at over the years that show us that women are deeply in denial about this and how you can specifically recognize if you are one of those women. Let’s dig in, ladies. I already talked too much. Save me from myself.

Producer Joy [00:04:07]:

This topic is so on point though, for so many women. Like, I’m super excited to dive into this.

Coach Tiffini [00:04:15]:

I just got a text last week from somebody that’s like, oh shit, I just looked at his Instagram, promised myself that I wasn’t gonna do it, but here I am scrolling through the photos.

Producer Joy [00:04:23]:

Yep, yep.

Dawn Wiggins [00:04:24]:

And it wrecks us, right? Like I’ve had multiple women who I’ve met with this week that are listeners, right. Admit that they. Yeah, when they drop into that, it’s so dysregulating, right. It takes them out for a few days from an emotional standpoint. From a nervous system standpoint.

Producer Joy [00:04:39]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:04:41]:

Okay, so we’re gonna, we’re gonna unpack these loops, these three sexy things we’re gonna talk about with regards to addiction, right? But it’s truth telling time. Talk to me about the ways each of you see yourselves doing hidden addiction. This. Like we think it’s this, but it’s really that, right? Where you tell yourself you’re not gonna whatever, but then you do the thing and it’s just to avoid feeling. Cause what is addiction? Right? It’s a difficulty feeling a feeling and processing it. It’s like I need something outside of me to solve the pain that I’m experiencing the discomfort I’m experiencing, so I need something outside of me to rescue from this feeling. So what are the ways that, you know, the three of us experience trying to distance from painful emotions by using addictive substances, whatever they are for us. Right.

Coach Tiffini [00:05:31]:

I was younger. It looked a lot different. So when I was younger, it was definitely alcohol.

Dawn Wiggins [00:05:36]:

Mm. Mm.

Coach Tiffini [00:05:39]:

And weed. Can I say that?

Dawn Wiggins [00:05:41]:

Yeah, of course.

Coach Tiffini [00:05:42]:

That’s what it was. Right. Like, yeah, I always used alcohol and marijuana to sort of like, just mask whatever I was feeling from a pretty young age too. Right. So, like, my young adult life, that’s kind of how I was raised to do it. So there was this time period then when I went sober off of everything for several years. And so addiction looks different for me now. Right.

Coach Tiffini [00:06:03]:

And I know that a lot of women think, well, if I’m not drinking or I’m not using a substance, how. How can I possibly be an addict?

Dawn Wiggins [00:06:08]:

Right, Right.

Coach Tiffini [00:06:09]:

But now what I noticed in myself is, like, I changed from alcohol and weed to eating late night eating, binge eating, when I’m not even hungry. Everybody knows what that is. You sit some kettle chips, and I can pound a whole bag like it’s nobody’s business. Like they’re delicious. Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:06:26]:

So, Joy, I posted this meme recently that said, so I’m really disappointed to find out that a serving size of potato chips is 12 chips. Girl, I eat 12 chips just trying to decide if I want to eat chips or not.

Coach Tiffini [00:06:38]:

Yeah, you got to get that good flavor, you know, like, whatever. So to me, it looked like overeating at times. To me, it looked like exercising too much. At some times it looked like scrolling on my phone. Any sort of behavior where you are checking out mentally because you don’t want to feel, and those are the more subtle things where sometimes it’s harder to recognize when you’re doing it because it.

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:01]:

Is such a sneaky, insidious.

Producer Joy [00:07:05]:

Yeah, yeah. Well.

Coach Tiffini [00:07:06]:

And we get out. Yeah. When I knew that I had a problem with social media, in particular, it was to the fact where I would literally just get on my phone and I’d know exactly where that social media icon was.

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:18]:

Yeah, you could do it.

Coach Tiffini [00:07:19]:

And when I moved the icon to another page, I still was in the habit of getting up and pushing on the same freaking icon like it was wild.

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:27]:

Wow, that’s really good.

Coach Tiffini [00:07:29]:

So I think that again, when you start picking things that are different than what people normally consider to be addictive substances, you know, even sex, even random hookups, like, that’s all Addicting things. So I think that you have to be really careful about what are you doing habitually to ignore what you’re trying to feel.

Dawn Wiggins [00:07:50]:

Yeah, yeah. We talked about this last week. Right. Because we were all hanging out in person together, and I was like, we gotta change the question from what are you feeling? To what are you avoiding feeling right now?

Producer Joy [00:08:01]:

Yeah, yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:08:02]:

Because that’s the habit of the pattern. Yeah.

Coach Tiffini [00:08:04]:

And that’s easier to answer, I think.

Producer Joy [00:08:07]:

Yeah, I think that there’s. I think my personal experience with addiction is addicted to the drama. Like, if something’s not on fire, my nervous system wasn’t okay. And addicted to the busy. So, like, when I have a space in my calendar, if I don’t fill it up so I can be calm and I can process, I couldn’t. I could not handle that. So, like, relearning. Don, do you remember a couple years ago when I was going through like the.

Producer Joy [00:08:37]:

Recognizing the addiction of the drama and trying to break those cycles and those circles, my heart literally went haywire and I was palpitating really bad. And like, there’s something structurally wrong with my heart. And I went to cardiologist and all these things, and there was actually nothing physically wrong with me, but you could watch my heart just being going because I was literally detoxing, all of that. And that was the moment for me. It was so clear to me how by choosing differently, my body was literally experiencing withdrawal. Like, revolting. Yeah, it was revolting. It could not.

Producer Joy [00:09:15]:

I went through a physical withdraw because I was trying to, you know, reprocess and reintegrate and rewire those pathways of the addiction to the busy, addiction to the drama, addiction to the. And it meant cutting, you know, kind of pulling back from family members and pulling back from some of those behaviors of Facebook stalking. And.

Dawn Wiggins [00:09:41]:

Like, it went with social media.

Producer Joy [00:09:45]:

And so, you know, like, yeah, it’s. It’s crazy how your body reacts, withdraws from things that you wouldn’t necessarily think would be addiction in today’s mainstream, you know?

Dawn Wiggins [00:09:59]:

Yeah, I think it’s. You know, I hate to be one of those people that’s like, gosh, today’s day and age, right. Cause does anything ever really change?

Coach Tiffini [00:10:08]:

But.

Dawn Wiggins [00:10:08]:

But I do think that with modern conveniences, right, we have really lost track of how to feel. We’re not sitting outside anymore. We’re not working. We’re not our bodies anymore. I don’t want to say not, because my husband literally works outside in his body. So I’m not trying to over simplify the thing. But generally speaking, right, we are really numb. And Brene Brown has some amazing research, right, that she really enlightened us all with back in 2010, 2011.

Dawn Wiggins [00:10:36]:

Right. About how, you know, she talked about beer and a beer and a banana nut muffin. Right. That we would all do anything to stay numb and to avoid feeling. And so all of her research on shame and vulnerability, she taught us that most of what we’re trying to escape from with our addictions is shame. That’s for most of us, that is the emotion we really struggle to process. And we’ll talk about this a little more, you know, later in the podcast. But most of the time, we can work through feelings of, you know, fear, sadness, or whatever.

Dawn Wiggins [00:11:07]:

Right. But it’s the underlying shame that most people, I don’t think, realize they’re actually struggling with. They don’t recognize when that’s the thing they’re dancing away from. And then, yeah, we have all these behaviors. We do. So the ways that I have done it and definitely still do it is with, like, work and achievement and. Right. If I can just get it right and good and perfect and what are some other things that I do? Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:11:34]:

I would say a lot of times I struggle still with it when it’s got to do with my husband or my daughter. Like, if they do something that’s embarrassing to me, that will feel, like, shameful to me, and then I’ll want to, like, have them be perfect so that I don’t have to feel shame. Right. So it’s. Those are the places where I can still see shame sort of creep in in little ways.

Coach Tiffini [00:11:56]:

I love how people always tell me, I just want to get over this. I don’t want to feel it. I just want to come out on the other side of it. And it’s like, unfortunately, sweetheart, you have to feel every single part of this to get through the healing part. And it’s not comfortable and it’s not always fun, but it is a crucial part of being able to get from point A to point B. And that’s the hard work that most people are not willing to put in.

Dawn Wiggins [00:12:21]:

If you want the outcomes that people talk about when they’re manifesting. Right.

Producer Joy [00:12:25]:

Like, yeah, right, right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:12:27]:

You know, you can’t. You can’t say that you want high vibe things and not go through the shedding of the low vibe shit. Okay, let’s talk a little bit about the sort of good girl trap loop, right, where you end up accepting less than because. And so you end up in this, like, I’m Craving connection. Craving connection. I’m pursuing it. I want to be wanted so badly. Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:12:52]:

You end up falling back. Right. You end up violating your own boundaries. You end up sort of, you know, eating the chips, scrolling the scroll.

Producer Joy [00:12:59]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:13:00]:

Answering the text message, whatever it is. Right. And it’s because, actually. Right. Because I hear a lot of women talk about the ache of wanting to be touched, of wanting to be sext, of wanting to be cherished. Like this ache of, like, physical emptiness or these types of things. Right. And the.

Dawn Wiggins [00:13:17]:

And the connection piece isn’t the problematic part. Right. It’s that below that ache is a deeply rooted fear that you’re not good enough or you can’t have it. Right. There’s shame underneath the desire for connection. It’s actually the shame that causes the relapse into the loop or the accepting the breadcrumbs or the chasing shit that doesn’t actually solve. Right. But people think it’s loneliness.

Dawn Wiggins [00:13:45]:

People think it’s the loneliness that’s the problem, but it’s actually the shame that underpins loneliness. Talk to me about what you’ve seen, either in yourselves or with the women we talk to. Right. That end up with the scraps and the breadcrumbs. Do you see women recognizing that it’s actually the shame piece underneath or that they’re actually afraid they can’t have it? Or do you see them really thinking it’s something else, like loneliness or there’s no good men or whatever it is?

Coach Tiffini [00:14:09]:

Yeah. For me, the women that I work with specifically think that there’s no good men out there, that they’re not deserving, they’re not good enough, or they just want sex, you know, and they don’t understand why there’s that, like, loneliness or aching part in there. Usually I tell people to get a cat.

Dawn Wiggins [00:14:24]:

Yeah, yeah.

Coach Tiffini [00:14:25]:

I know that sounds silly, but it’s like, get something to love on, you know, like.

Dawn Wiggins [00:14:29]:

Yeah, yeah.

Coach Tiffini [00:14:29]:

Connection doesn’t have to be romantic, you know, And I think that that’s where a lot of people feel like if they don’t have a romantic love in life at that point, then it’s like some catastrophic loss and they can never feel genuine love connection. But I feel that with my friends. I feel that with my family, and I feel that towards my cats. And I know that sounds silly, but, like, you know, there’s genuine connection there. As far as me, I followed breadcrumbs forever, forever in my life. I settled for these texts from men that maybe would text me good morning or maybe look my way Or, Right. Because I didn’t feel like I could attract the types of men that I was truly craving. But the thing is, I couldn’t because I was so codependent that a man with an insecure attachment style was not going to find me attractive.

Coach Tiffini [00:15:15]:

He was going to find me needy as hell. And that’s exactly how I came off for quite a long time in my dating journey.

Dawn Wiggins [00:15:21]:

So even for those women who just want to have sex, like, I don’t think they’re recognizing. Do you think they’re recognizing that actually, that. That’s. That’s probably a part of self, right? Like, like a manager part or a firefighter part that’s found an adaptive way to perceive connection. It’s not actually connection. Right. But it’s to get that fix, that addictive fix. Like, I will feel better about myself if I can have this particular type of experience.

Dawn Wiggins [00:15:46]:

And it solves the craving for needing to feel seen, heard, understood, whatever. Right. And it doesn’t actually address, like, it doesn’t actually create connection, deeper, meaningful. Right.

Producer Joy [00:15:58]:

It’s like the dopamine hit.

Dawn Wiggins [00:15:59]:

Correct? It’s like a hit.

Coach Tiffini [00:16:00]:

Well, that’s what I was just gonna say. Anything. And this is an easy way to figure it out, ladies. Anything that feels to you like a dopamine hit, that is an addictive habit. Whether it’s the Instagram scrolling, the sex, the chips, something that gives you that instant hit of adrenaline.

Producer Joy [00:16:18]:

Shopping.

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:19]:

All the shopping. Yep.

Coach Tiffini [00:16:21]:

That is a way to know that you’re using it to cope for sure.

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:25]:

And it’s addiction.

Coach Tiffini [00:16:27]:

Well, society now makes it so easy to do all that.

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:30]:

That’s it, right?

Coach Tiffini [00:16:31]:

You can celebrate it.

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:32]:

Yeah. Celebrated.

Coach Tiffini [00:16:34]:

We can door dash. We can do, you know, ordering things online. We could have something.

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:37]:

Oh, my goodness. Was it right? Like, I know. I think it was, like, early this summer, and I saw a commercial. We must have been in an Airbnb or, like, somewhere where we would have commercials. Or maybe we were watching MacGyver. I don’t know. Sometimes we’ll watch throwback television shows. And so I’m not right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:16:50]:

When I watch Netflix, I don’t watch commercials. But we were watching something where there was a commercial, and I saw a commercial for, like, now you can DoorDash your McDonald’s coffee. And I was like, we are crumbling as a society, not for the reasons people think.

Coach Tiffini [00:17:02]:

Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:03]:

But we have to DoorDash our McDonald’s. What? I don’t know. You know what I mean? It’s like we are not addressing the underlying needs as a society of People for rest, connection, shame, tolerance. Right. Healthy ego. Like, we are not like spiritual. Spiritual. Spiritual awareness and connection.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:21]:

Like, we are not pursuing the right things. We are pursuing addiction.

Coach Tiffini [00:17:27]:

The dopamine, truly.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:28]:

Yeah.

Coach Tiffini [00:17:28]:

It’s all at our fingertips. Whatever your poison is, pick it. It’s right there on your phone, which.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:33]:

Is like, you know, Hunger Games. Does anybody, you know, love Hunger Games? Like, we do over here. But it’s like, when you look at, you know, who lived in the city, what were those people called? And, you know, they would have these lavish parties where they would eat.

Producer Joy [00:17:46]:

Capital.

Dawn Wiggins [00:17:47]:

Yeah, the capital. And then they would vomit in a. Yeah. In a bowl so that they could keep eating. Like, we’re on the brink of that. Like, pretty much across the board. It’s wild.

Coach Tiffini [00:17:56]:

And even, like the TV shows that you binge. I know this sounds silly, but, like, every time, if you come in and ever find me watching Gilmore Girls, which I’m obsessed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A million times.

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:07]:

Yeah.

Coach Tiffini [00:18:07]:

But when I’m watching it, not in the background, but when I’m sitting and actively watching it, it is because I’m avoiding feeling a feeling. Because that show brings me good feelings.

Dawn Wiggins [00:18:16]:

Oh, I’ve heard other people tell me about this before. Like, I have someone who watches Hallmark movies because it makes them feel good. That’s so interesting. So what feelings do you tend to avoid from watching Gilmore Girls? Now? I know.

Coach Tiffini [00:18:29]:

True confession. It is a lot of, like. It is. It’s like, a lot of shame around just things that I’m continuing to experience. You think that, you know, I’m still in my healing journey. And again, this is what I love about our program, because the women in our program get a behind the scenes look at the fact that, like, we’re not on the other side of this.

Producer Joy [00:18:51]:

Right, Right.

Coach Tiffini [00:18:52]:

Like, we are. But the only difference, guys, between us and you is the fact that. That we know the tools. We. We know what to do for ourselves. But it doesn’t mean that shit just magically stops happening in our lives. We’re still human.

Dawn Wiggins [00:19:03]:

That’s right. Well, can I say what you just said a little? Can I say what you just said a different way?

Coach Tiffini [00:19:08]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:19:09]:

Okay. I do think we’re on the other side of this. Right. Like, I do want to clarify that. That’s my perspective. But the thing is, is there’s always a new this. Unless you stay stagnant in life, unless you stop growing, unless you’re like, okay, I feel from this thing, and I’m never gonna push myself outside of my comfort zone again. There’s always a new this.

Dawn Wiggins [00:19:29]:

So, like, not for nothing, the shit we tackle around here, the dreams that we all have, they’re big. And when you have big dreams and big goals, there’s always gonna be new layers of becoming. That mean facing of, am I good enough? Am I worthy? Can I do this? Am I whatever? Right. There’s always a new this. So I think that’s the thing to really understand is like, it’s. This is the cycle of becoming in the course of life. Right. Is if you have a growth mindset, you’re always going to have closets you’re cleaning out.

Coach Tiffini [00:20:01]:

Yeah. But I like that. Again, we can share that with the women in the program. Right. Like, that just offers another sense of vulnerability. And I know that a lot of them were kind of shocked, like, to hear sometimes what we deal with on a case by case, because we are. We’re giving you guys a behind the scenes on our relationships, our marriages.

Dawn Wiggins [00:20:17]:

Yeah.

Coach Tiffini [00:20:18]:

And, you know, we all have girls over here, so pray for us.

Dawn Wiggins [00:20:21]:

We are a bunch of girls.

Coach Tiffini [00:20:22]:

A lot of girls. Oh, my God.

Producer Joy [00:20:25]:

Pray for us.

Dawn Wiggins [00:20:26]:

Yeah.

Producer Joy [00:20:27]:

I feel like. I do feel like I’m a completely different person than I was, you know, in the Valley. In the Valley. But I still have that struggle of, like, am I good enough? I have a party coming up where I’m supposed to bring some of my favorite favorite things. And the amount of bandwidth and time that I’ve. I’ve taken up in my brain because I want to be chosen. I want my. My favorite things to be.

Producer Joy [00:20:50]:

I want to be good enough for this party. And like, these women are wonderful and they’re lovely, but I have my circle. And so it’s like, why do I need their approval on a simple little item? Right. Because I’m so. I’m still. You still have those moments where it reveals to you, I don’t need to be chosen. Yes. Like, this is something I’m still kind of in the weeds about, about being good enough chosen and being, like, socially accepted and being a cool chick, you know, like, it’s very, very much always a work in progress because there’s.

Producer Joy [00:21:22]:

There’s not a level of which I don’t want to be better always. I want to grow always. And so there’s always going to be something that. Why did I just react when. When so and so said that to me? Because that’s her. That’s. That’s her. That’s her.

Producer Joy [00:21:41]:

You know, people. People give you feedback through the lens of their story. And so when you can understand that that’s their story. That’s not actually a reflection of me. That’s the way she sees me, not who I actually am. So it’s very. It’s. It’s very exciting.

Producer Joy [00:22:00]:

Don and I talk about this all the time, where it’s like, oh, I just had this revelation and how exciting, because this is something that I can actually work through and clear and, you know, kind of address in my. In my sphere of me being, growing and me developing as a person, you know, But. But also.

Dawn Wiggins [00:22:19]:

Yeah. When you spot it, right. When you spot it, you can massage it out or whatever. Yeah. I think I even. I think I even use growth mindset a lot of times to run away from shame, right? Like, I’m gonna try to. Yeah, yeah, I’m gonna try to deep into that. I, Like, I’m going to.

Dawn Wiggins [00:22:37]:

If I can just have this growth mindset, and I’m always getting better, right? Then I don’t have to, I don’t know, get hard feedback about certain things sometimes because I’m a step ahead, you know? So it’s like.

Coach Tiffini [00:22:51]:

Yeah, understand that Don just put me on a remedy that’s like True Serum and is making me truth bomb everyone else in my life. So it’s almost like she wants me to come at her in certain ways and challenge her.

Dawn Wiggins [00:23:01]:

I do, always. But I think that’s because I’ve learned how to leverage shame, right? I’ve learned how to say, like, okay, if I can just feel this and move through it, then, right, I’m purging. Like, there’s. I’m less affected by. Right. There’s less pockets to get. There’s probably something. Let me.

Dawn Wiggins [00:23:17]:

Let me, like, get a little more in the weeds about that. There’s probably something about being blindsided, and I think a lot of women relate to this. Okay. I think if I had to say, it’s maybe not the shame, because I really think that I’ve learned how to leverage shame. I’ve learned how to say, spot it inside of me, outside of me, all around me, in people, you name it, right? And so I do. I welcome critique and feedback because then I know you’re calling out a blind spot. I can’t see, and then I can put it to work and I can feel better, right? But I think it’s. Being blindsided is probably what I.

Dawn Wiggins [00:23:49]:

So whatever that is, shock, panic, heart racing, right? Like that. And I think a lot of women will relate to that, because the woman who is constantly planning what she’s going to say next, and she’s Planning eight different versions of the conversation so she can feel prepared, because she doesn’t want to feel blindsided. So that is probably what my growth mindset allows me to distance from. Right? So if I had to work on something, it probably would be my capacity to feel blindsided and still stay grounded in my faith that all is well. And it’s just a feeling. And a feeling can be processed right. And be put down. So that’s, I would say, is probably your biggest.

Dawn Wiggins [00:24:32]:

Yeah. Because I will.

Coach Tiffini [00:24:33]:

My biggest right now, which, you know, this right now, something that I’m still actively or that I’m working on in this part of my life is feeling like I have to do everything on my own in this business, in my partnership as a parent. All of that. Like, this theme has finally been circling me for way too long, and I’m finally being called out on all fronts of it. And so now I’m addressing it because it is an issue, and I know that it’s preventing me from moving forward in certain parts of my life. And so now I can’t hide from it anymore. I can’t hide from it anymore. I can’t numb from it. Too many people are aware of it.

Coach Tiffini [00:25:07]:

Too many people have called me out in recent weeks.

Dawn Wiggins [00:25:10]:

You know what?

Producer Joy [00:25:11]:

Damn it.

Coach Tiffini [00:25:12]:

I’m like, I guess I need to deal with this now. So, Yeah, I mean, so like an.

Producer Joy [00:25:18]:

Addiction to hyper independence.

Coach Tiffini [00:25:21]:

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:25:21]:

But it’s. But it’s what’s under there, right? It’s like, it’s what’s the insecurity under there, which is like. You know, we were shooting the. About this the other day when we were talking about podcast titles. We were workshopping a title, right? And it’s like, if you’re not, like, if you’re not as good at titles or if you’re not as good as whatever. What does that mean about you? Like, does it mean you’re not good enough? Like, no. Right? That’s the thing. That’s the thing that hyper independence tries to solve, right? Is feeling like you’re not good enough in some way.

Dawn Wiggins [00:25:48]:

Like, you have to be able to.

Coach Tiffini [00:25:49]:

Do that or that I can’t handle it all and I have to rely on others, which then creates fear in me, right? So, like, dawn had sent me this voice message, and she was like, you just. There’s this fear, this underlying fear that you have about doing things on your own. And so I played that out loud, and I automatically just hear, like, my partner sitting in the next room, and I’m like. Because I’M like, now his eyes were burning, right?

Dawn Wiggins [00:26:12]:

Yeah, yeah. I’m just like, well, yeah, because then, right? Because then it’s number one. Like, okay, so I can’t do it, all right? I have to rely on people, which is how we’re, we’re meant to rely on people, right? Like, but not in the addictive way where we’re distancing from our pain, right. In a vulnerable way. So, so, yeah, it’s like, okay, all right, I need people. But then like, to be able to trust people, right, Is the next insecurity, the next feeling that’s big and scary and whatever.

Coach Tiffini [00:26:39]:

Yeah, yeah. And that’s something I’ve dealt with my whole life. So that’s something that I, you know, and again, I say this all the time. Like, I, I would not suggest doing it my way because I feel like you definitely want to get healed prior to trying to get into your next long term relationship. I have a very, very patient partner that has stayed with me through my own healing and through his too. Right. Like. But yeah, it’s definitely been a journey and a challenge and, you know, it’s crazy to think that I’m still at, you know, 42 years old, struggling with, still being able to trust and let go in all capacities.

Coach Tiffini [00:27:15]:

Right? In my job, my career, my parenting, like, everything.

Producer Joy [00:27:17]:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:27:18]:

But I think it makes sense, so because again, becoming right, one of the things that I’ve been leaning into so much in the last couple of years is we don’t necessarily have to trust people. We have to be able to trust God and the universe, whatever, however you want to relate to that. Right? And so if I can trust that the universe has my back and believe that capital B, believe that God has my back, that the universe has my back, then I don’t necessarily have to trust people. I have to be able to have a nervous system that’s well resourced enough that it can feel safe and can access faith and positive beliefs. And so I think that that’s probably what the deeper calling is, right? Is do I put my faith in people? Because people, we all fuck up, right? Like, so you could work on building up your trust in people all the time, but like, then your nervous system is going to still take hits all the time because people are people, right? And we do shit all the time that makes other people feel uncomfortable or whatever, you know? So I think being able to have a really grounded nervous system that’s well resourced, very flexible, like the band aid. Not band aid. What’s that? What’s those squishy thing. Rubber band.

Dawn Wiggins [00:28:26]:

Rubber band. There was a band in there, right? Nervous systems are supposed to be flexible like rubber bands, right? Under stress, they’re supposed to be able to flex out. And then when the stress is removed, assuming your stress gets removed, most people I think that have been living in chronic fight flight, freeze fawn. The stress never gets removed and then the rubber band gets stretched out. And have you ever seen a really oxidated rubber band? It can no longer go back to its old shape anymore. That’s how most people’s nervous systems are. They’re stretched to the limit and they’re not conditioned to be able to go back to rest and digest. So they’re just in constant state of hyperarousal, right? So you need a well resourced nervous system that can flex and bend and return to its healthy, normal shape.

Dawn Wiggins [00:29:03]:

And you need a strong faith in a organized universe that loves you, right? And then people are just gonna, people and we could just enjoy them. You know, that’s what I think we’re all at work on is leveling up from that perspective. Okay, let’s dig into why this all matters for the women we work with who are recovering from divorce, right? Because okay, what’s the upside of healing? What’s the downside of healing? Cause there’s both, right? The downside of healing is you have to learn to feel all of this shit and there’s no running away from it or escaping it. The upside is, right, you, you get to actually manifest the high vibe things because you become a high vibe individual who, who feels safe, who anticipates abundance and said abundance shows up, right? But you know what we often talk about around here and I think a question I ask both of you a lot, I think that if you really reflected back I’ve been thinking about this the last couple of days, I bet I ask you this question a lot. I say things like, do you think she knows? Do you think she knows? Do you think she knows? That is a question I’m constantly asking because do you think the women who are listening right now know? Do you think they know what the downside is to not doing this work? Do you think they know that they’re struggling with addiction? Do you think they know that talk therapies and even yoga is not going to resource their nervous system to the depths of what they need? Do you think they know that their nervous systems are revved because they’ve never felt what it is to have their nervous system not revved? And how do you Know something you’ve not felt right. Do you think they know? So let’s talk about the really, really specifically. Let’s get in the weeds about the things we see our women who we’ve been working with and our listeners. Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:30:44]:

Struggle with with regards to denial and being able to recognize the way codependency as addiction is running their lives.

Coach Tiffini [00:30:53]:

What I would say initially is that when we first start working with people in our program, they don’t recognize cycles. They do not have the awareness to know. All they can really feel is something’s wrong. Right. And I feel like, you know, one of the emails that went out recently is like, you know, it’s time to join this program when you can’t live like you’re living anymore. Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:31:13]:

So you, you recognize there’s like fed up of feeling like shit.

Coach Tiffini [00:31:16]:

Yeah. But like you might not recognize why you’re feeling like this or how to prevent it from happening again or how to, you know, prevent from choosing someone like that again. So I feel like I don’t think initially the awareness is there.

Dawn Wiggins [00:31:28]:

No.

Coach Tiffini [00:31:28]:

And I don’t even think most women, when they join the program know exactly what they need.

Producer Joy [00:31:31]:

Right.

Coach Tiffini [00:31:32]:

Like they just know that something has got to change because they cannot continue doing it. I think a lot of our women who are mothers, it’s when they can no longer parent in the best way that they want to because they are.

Dawn Wiggins [00:31:43]:

So in their head about like that’s their red line. Like they can see their parenting slipping and so. Or like the way they’re responding, responding to their kids slipping and that’s their red line. Yeah.

Coach Tiffini [00:31:52]:

Which.

Dawn Wiggins [00:31:52]:

That’s a beautiful recognition. Yeah. So if you’re like willing to do something on behalf of your kids but not yourself, that is a hallmark, hallmark of codependency is addiction. Yeah.

Coach Tiffini [00:32:03]:

And I tell women that all the time that are moms that I start working with, like to start making those initial, initial shifts. Like if you can’t fight for yourself in this moment, at least fight for your kids because that will click something over in a mom’s mind to bring that mom.

Dawn Wiggins [00:32:16]:

It’s a lily pad to the next thing.

Coach Tiffini [00:32:17]:

Correct. Until she finally starts figuring out how to care for herself and to do for herself.

Dawn Wiggins [00:32:22]:

Absolutely. That was my great catalyst. Yeah. I absolutely would set boundaries on my kids behalf. Absolutely. Before myself. Until that changed. Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:32:32]:

Until. Until. Yeah. It wasn’t. Yeah. What are some other very specific things we can help women see themselves in? The denial racket.

Coach Tiffini [00:32:42]:

The activation that occurs during ifs. For me, if I have someone that comes in and is getting ready to do an IFS session I love. You know, it’s got to be on camera clearly because I’m studying you. I want to see what the physical reactions are to the body that you’re having. And so I have seen people’s eyes change in session when they start to dissociate. I have seen people start to nervous tapping, looking away, their breathing becomes labored like whatever it is, right? Even if you don’t have the awareness to know what’s going on, if I can mirror it back to you and show you that you are clearly in an activated state whether you recognize it or not, then women start to recognize it for themselves.

Dawn Wiggins [00:33:22]:

So when you’re talking to women and you and I know you have this superpower and you watch them answer their own why, you watch them start their self reflection process and stop before they actually get to, to the truth. Where do you see women getting stuck, going a layer deeper and owning their shit?

Producer Joy [00:33:42]:

I see so many times when I’m working with, when I’m sitting with a woman and I ask them why or I encourage them to ask themselves why and they, they stop because they, they get to the brink of kind of where it’s at, but then they default to. It’s been done to me, it’s been happened to me instead of. But what are you like owning yourself and owning your own choices. And like every woman has, everybody on the planet has things happen to them, but it’s, it’s how they handle it is their superpower and that’s where they get the best result. And the owning themselves when you can kind of click out of that victim of like this isn’t, this might have occurred to you in your life, your childhood or whatever. But like you are in charge of yourself and you don’t get to live in this spot of victimhood and be the healthiest version of yourself because those two things don’t.

Dawn Wiggins [00:34:42]:

You can’t have them both, huh? Hot damn, there it is. Okay, so let’s recap, right? So the things we see denial is when we toggle the victim consciousness, right? Like, but this was done to me and that I think I know I can definitively say beyond a shadow of a doubt that that is one of the things that homeopathy really delivered me from because I would know, like I practice all the things, right? I’m a law of attraction junkie. I freaking know that I can’t be having these thoughts and manifesting my dreams. And I think that when I would use all the tools. And I couldn’t get those thoughts to stop popping in. And I understand the way cognitive behavioral therapy works. Like, we can’t necessarily control the pops, the thoughts that pop in, but we can control what we do with them. Right.

Dawn Wiggins [00:35:31]:

But I was like, we’re having to wrestle victim oriented thoughts for most of my life. And it’s like with homeopathy, they just disappeared. And then I could just work through the feelings. And that. Right. Is like, worth its weight in gold. So Tiffany says she sees it when women have activated nervous systems and they don’t realize it. Joy sees it when women go to sort of a victim consciousness.

Dawn Wiggins [00:35:56]:

Awesome. Anything else we see women do where they’re in denial, we can help women spot their own denial while they’re listening to this so they can know they’re actually struggling with the pattern of codependency and addiction. It’s way more rampant than people think. There were a lot of statistics and studies. I could have like quoted it you all today, but like, do we trust the organizations that did the research? What does statistics actually mean to us? But like, codependency and addiction, it’s a massive cultural problem and a massive phenomenon. Anything else we see women doing that’s denial oriented, that would help them break through and realize like, fudge, this is me.

Coach Tiffini [00:36:30]:

I think just, you know, even with some of them, like people that have had multiple partners even prior to being married, I would sit there and tell them, like, write down similarities between these partners. There’s always themes. There were so many themes between my first relationships in my marriage. Like, so many themes, you know, argued the same way, escalated the same way, treated me the same way. Like, not. Not perfectly, but there were a lot of themes that I resonated with. You know, do you tend to gravitate towards men who are avoiding attachment or anxious attachment or whatever it is? You know, there are going to be similarities between the partners in your life that you’re choosing, whether you want to see that or not. And I think that that’s when I see women take a step back and be like, shit, I didn’t even realize that there were similarities between these two because they were completely different.

Dawn Wiggins [00:37:19]:

Right, right, right. You know, I totally get that. Like the guy married and the guy dated after post divorce, right. They were radically different men. But like, underneath it all, there were themes. Right? And yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Coach Tiffini [00:37:35]:

But that’s what I put in my email this morning that I sent out to our online community about, you know, basically the fact that, you know, you can have a Partner who’s different, but it still doesn’t mean you’re aligned. You can still be a totally different book from that person.

Dawn Wiggins [00:37:50]:

And this goes back to Lori Gerber’s 3H method. Right. Is that we think we want, like, dress as well, tall, dark and handsome. She says. Right. Or like a certain, like, funny or whatever. Right. But it’s like if we can’t define why we want those things, it’s like we can pick a different partner that looks different, acts different, has a different job, has a different whatever, but like, underneath there, the way it feels to be in conflict with them.

Dawn Wiggins [00:38:12]:

Similar. The way it feels to. To be celebrated or not celebrated by them. Similar. The way it feels to be in a tight spot in a social situation with them. Similar. Right. It’s like if we can’t define why, if we can’t really get into the nitty gritty of how it feels.

Dawn Wiggins [00:38:27]:

And if you. If we’ve been practicing not feeling, we are not willing to assess that at that level. Right. And so it all freaking ties together. Yeah. You can’t be stuck in a codependency addiction loop and be able to define your 3H’s and know whether or not you’re cycle breaking.

Coach Tiffini [00:38:41]:

I think what I want women to know is that there is an other side to this. But in order to get there, you need to go through the deep work and the cycles and the recognition of the cycles are essentially what’s going to set you free is the awareness to know what the cycles are. There is so much peace in that to know that you are not crazy.

Dawn Wiggins [00:38:59]:

Right, right, right.

Coach Tiffini [00:39:00]:

You know, like, yeah, but. But I reason behind the reason.

Dawn Wiggins [00:39:04]:

All human behavior has an explanation. But I think this is where I hear women get really frustrated with, like, how much more of this do I have to do? When does my work get to be done? And that’s where it’s like, you mean I have to have a whole nother chapter of this? And then we toggle into the victim consciousness. Right. And then we run away from the work. Yeah.

Coach Tiffini [00:39:24]:

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins [00:39:25]:

Okay. My darling dears. Well, I think we did the subject justice. I don’t know that we. Like. It’s a definitive guide on codependency and addiction, but I think we helped people think differently about it, which I love. Anything else you want to add before we wrap up?

Producer Joy [00:39:37]:

Yeah, I just really hope that our listeners feel seen that we’re not preaching from the top of the mountain. Like, we’re in it with you and we. We want to come alongside you while you are in this season of self discovery and self. That’s why our program, we are all three so passionate about our program because it is such a space to be held, right?

Dawn Wiggins [00:40:06]:

To feel safe, to feel. To develop the capacity to feel painful. Shit. Yeah. Okay, so if you haven’t filled out our inquiry form yet for a different d word, our 12 month customized program that is integrated all in like, rehab your nervous system, feel safe to feel, learn how to do intimacy, learn how to break the cycles of codependency and addiction, attract different partners. So feel good in yourself, be done with that fucking loneliness ache. Can I say that right there? I did. If you have not filled out an inquiry form yet, here’s your sign to check it out.

Dawn Wiggins [00:40:41]:

You get to jump on a call with me and see if it’s a good fit or not. Right? Because it’s not the right fit for everybody right now. But we certainly want to help you determine if that’s it or if there’s something else in the way. Right. So cannot wait to connect with you. All right. We love you so much. Peace, Dear.

Dawn Wiggins [00:41:04]:

Divorce Diary is a podcast by my coach, Dawn. You can find more@mycoachdawn.com.